[Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial

Sat Nov 24 00:53:46 UTC 2012

Bullshit !

And I will also say to you " WOW " !

Norman Finkelstein is Jewish !

John Reimann, author of
 " THE NEW APARTHEID, THE RISE OF ZIONISM AND THE ISRAELI STATE "
is Jewish and a personal friend of mine, who is an outstanding Labor 
activist who has proven over time that he " walks it like he talks it ", 
standing firm to his principles even when he suffered financial and personal 
reprisals.

Not only is John Reimann and Norman Finkelstein Jewish, but Norman 
Finkelstein's parents were survivors of Auschwitz  and John Reimann's father 
was the editor of " Die Rote Fahne " left-wing newspaper is Berlin ( 
1929-1933 ) and was on a Nazi most wanted list until he escaped to NYC.

One individual came to the C-U Occupy meeting with a website proposal, and 
after many of us checked out his web-site, determined that his
 " Holacaust Revisionism "
 ( his words later in response to questioning ) was not for us.
I.E. We disagreed with his views on that subject and did NOT want to be 
assosiated with his web-site.

You obviously are trying to make a " mountain out of a mole hill ",
but while we are on the subject, do you support the bombing of Gaza and the 
general principles of racist Israeli Zionism ?
As opposed to brave Israeli groups like PEACE NOW.

That is what I want to hear from you, whoever the hell you are !

David Johnson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Gehrig" <david-cu at nukulele.org>
To: <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2012 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial

> All I can say is, wow.
>
> Folks, it's really very simple.
>
> There is a forty-year-old strain of antisemitic propaganda which started 
> with the fascist right and is now reshaping itself to build an audience on 
> the left.
>
> It has made its first appearance on the left here in CU.
>
> It has its own local Patient Zero.
>
> I was hoping for at least one response that actually addressed the topic 
> directly, but apparently I was being too optimistic.
>
> If I were asked, point blank, whether this list actually cares about 
> antisemitism in CU as anything other than a trigger for pre-cooked 
> tirades, at this point I'd have to say no, not to any noticeable degree, 
> except apparently as a springboard to launch into a discussion about the 
> JFK assassination.
>
> Like I said -- wow.
>
> @%<
>
> On 2012-11-23 12:21, David Johnson wrote:
>> " Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy
>> theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of
>> time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real
>> problems in the world. "
>>
>> NORMAN FINKELSTEIN HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS PHENOMENA,
>> THAT BEING " THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY ", THAT HAS NOT ONLY MADE CERTAIN
>> PEOPLE MONEY BUT HAS MORE IMPORTENTLY, AS YOU DESCRIBED DAVID, BEEN
>> USED TO DISTRACT AND JUSTIFY THE NAZI LIKE BEHAVIOUR OF THE ISRAELI
>> GOVERNMENT.
>>
>> IN TERMS OF THE JFK ASSASINATION AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS, AS
>> OPPOSED TO THEORIES OR GOVERNMANT COVER-UPS LIKE THE BUSH APPOINTED
>> 9/11 COMMISION AND THE WARREN COMMISSION, I WOULD RESPECTFULLY
>> DISAGREE.
>> KENNEDY ASSASINATION, M.L. KING ASSASINATION, MALCOLM X ASSASINATION,
>> AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS SHOULD BE STUDIED AND DISCUSSED ALONG WITH
>> DOCUMENTED FACTS OF : COINTELPRO, CIA SPONSORED COUPS AND
>> ASSASINATIONS, RIGGED ELECTONS, FALSE FLAG ACTIONS, ETC..
>> THE IMPORTENCE IS TWO FOLD ;
>> 1) TO KNOW WHAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS DONE IN THE PAST ON BEHALF OF
>> THE 1 %, SO THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL KNOW AND HENCE NOT BELIEVE
>> THE LIES OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, ETC.. TO JUSTIFY MILITARY
>> ACTIONS AND THE ABUSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES.
>> 2) WHEN DEALING WITH ANY GROUP OF CRIMINALS LIKE THE U.S, RULING
>> CLASS 1%, ONE MUST KNOW THEIR M.O., WHICH WILL ALSO ALLOW THE AMERICAN
>> PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND HOPEFULLY HOW TO PREVENT / DEAL WITH
>> IT IN THE FUTURE.
>>
>> OF COURSE SINCE 9/11 2001 THE RULING CLASS AND THE CORPORATE MEDIA
>> HAS DONE AN EXTENSIVE PROPOGANDA CAMPAIGN TO CONVINCE MANY PEOPLE IN
>> THE U.S. THAT ANY ACCUSATION ( NO MATTER HOW WELL DOCUMENTED )
>> OF COLLABORATION / MISDEEDS BY THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL IS "
>> CONSPIRACY THEORY " AND HENCE NOT TRUE.
>> AS IF THE WEALTHY AND THE POWERFUL DON'T COORDINATE ACTIONS OR EVEN
>> TALK TO EACH OTHER.
>>
>> I DO AGREE DAVID THAT ONE SHOULD NOT SPEND TOO MUCH TIME DWELLING ON
>> THESE SORT OF THINGS, HOWEVER TO IGNORE THE CRIMINAL HISTORY AND PAST
>> PRACTICES OF THE 1 % RULING CLASS IS AT OUR OWN PERIL.
>>
>> DAVID JOHNSON
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> FROM: David Green
>>> TO: peace-discuss
>>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:47 PM
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>>>
>>> The denial that I'm worried about is, among many other things, regarding 
>>> the willful and planned Israeli ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, 
>>> begun in earnest in 1947 and continuing at the present time. It's 
>>> important, because it's widespread and politically consequential.
>>>
>>> The small cult of Holocaust denial has had to be exaggerated out of all 
>>> proportion, partly in order to justify Israeli depredations, as well as 
>>> to distract attention from ongoing American-sponsored atrocities around 
>>> the world.
>>>
>>> Chomsky says that in the U.S., we have done the right thing by not 
>>> suppressing Holocaust denial, as they have in some countries in Europe. 
>>> Suppression and illegality only attracts more attention to the 
>>> phenomenon. In the U.S., people are allowed to deny the Holocaust, 
>>> they're recognized as lunatics, and nobody cares except a few 
>>> individuals like Deborah Lipstadt who have made careers out of 
>>> exaggerating the problem.
>>>
>>> Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy theories & 
>>> 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of time and a 
>>> distraction by anyone who is serious about the real problems in the 
>>> world.
>>>
>>> But Holocaust denial has served well those who continue to deny what 
>>> Israel has become--of course, only with the help of American support.
>>>
>>>> FROM: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>>>> TO: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:37 PM
>>>> SUBJECT: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>>>>
>>>> Folks, some thoughts on Holocaust denial, from someone who's studied it 
>>>> for fifteen years. It's going only to peace-discuss.
>>>>
>>>> I think some background would be helpful here.
>>>>
>>>> Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory of neo-Nazi origins claiming 
>>>> that literally millions of Jews have secretly collaborated on a global 
>>>> fraud orders of magnitude larger and more complex than any James Bond 
>>>> villain could even dream of.
>>>>
>>>> Intellectually, it's on par with the folks who think that NASA and 
>>>> Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing. But on top of its idiocy, it 
>>>> adds a thick, wide, and inescapable layer of antisemitic wackdoodlism.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I mean. The Watergate scandal involved under fifty 
>>>> conspirators, was protected by the most powerful man in the world, but 
>>>> it still rattled apart in just two years. The conspiracy theory that 
>>>> Holocaust deniers push requires not fifty Jews, not five hundred Jews, 
>>>> not five thousand Jews, not fifty thousand Jews, not five hundred 
>>>> thousand Jews, but five million Jews -- roughly a quarter of the 
>>>> world's Jewish population -- to stick impeccably to a criminal script 
>>>> flawlessly for over sixty years. As such, it ascribes to the Jews an 
>>>> inexplicable and inhuman capacity for criminality of the largest 
>>>> imaginable dimensions.
>>>>
>>>> What would you say to someone who tells you that one quarter of all 
>>>> people of Italian descent are active in the Cosa Nostra? You would 
>>>> rightly assail his idiocy, his paranoia, and his bigotry. Yet this is 
>>>> not that different from what Holocaust deniers claim about the world's 
>>>> Jews.
>>>>
>>>> It is like a burning cross. There is no dignified way to turn your eyes 
>>>> and pretend you didn't see it when it happens in your own town.
>>>>
>>>> If there is interest, I'd be happy to give a talk on the topic -- 
>>>> its neo-Nazi origins, and its attempt in the mid-2000's to repaint 
>>>> itself as "anti-Zionist" rather than "pro-Adolf" in order to try 
>>>> recruiting on the progressive left, while telling exactly the same 
>>>> lies. Few on the left have been fooled. But, as we have learned 
>>>> locally, few is not none.
>>>>
>>>> David @%<
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss [1]
>>>
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>>
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