[Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial

Sat Nov 24 01:48:03 UTC 2012

You asked the similar question to the one in my mind.

Why should anyone give a ripe red one about anti-semitism?

I mean, seriously?  Are the Jewish people under any particular threat?
It's "beyond the pale" to think that they are under any credible threat 
at all.

There are all sorts of anti-(anti-semitism) activists and organizations 
out there.

I actually feel that our lives are far more threatened by 
anti-(anti-semitics) than
by the generally laughable nonsense put out by anti-semitics.  Maybe it 
is time
for some anti-(anti-(anti-semitism)) because the anti-(anti-semitics) 
are surely
becoming a noxious threat.

Some fascist groups like the ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center operate
under the cover of being anti-semitic protection organizations when actually
their agendas have nothing to do with anti-semitism per se.  Groups like 
those are
a serious threat to our personal liberties, personal safety, and 
personal well-being.
Now just because someone hates the ADL and the SPLC doesnt mean he or 
she is anti-semitic.
The ADL claims to anti-(anti-semitic) but that doesnt make them 
anything.  In
their case it's just a meaningless label they hide behind.

As for all the other noise about anti-semitics and anti-semitic bigotry,
I am mean seriously, dont you think it's just about time for the
anti-(anti-semitics) to STFU, already?  Not that I want to stifle their
rhetoric or free speech or anything.  It's just that we've heard it all 
before,
and before, and before, and before, ad nauseam, ad infinitum.
It seems to me that the anti-(anti-semitics) are rival the anti-semitics
in the category of bigotism-induced nin-com-poop-ery.

In the movie "Dunston Checks In", there is a pair of old ladies raising 
money
in a crusade against Tinea Versicolor.  They explain that all the good 
diseases
were already taken.  Your campaign against anti-semitism reminds me of 
that somewhat,
but I think there are still some good causes that would make room for you.

Finally, we should consider the famous words of one famous Jew:

sed qui in abscondito iudaeus
et circumcisio cordis in spiritu
non littera cuius laus
non ex hominibus
sed ex deo est

On 11/24/12 8:12, David Gehrig wrote:
> All I can say is, wow.
>
> Folks, it's really very simple.
>
> There is a forty-year-old strain of antisemitic propaganda which 
> started with the fascist right and is now reshaping itself to build an 
> audience on the left.
>
> It has made its first appearance on the left here in CU.
>
> It has its own local Patient Zero.
>
> I was hoping for at least one response that actually addressed the 
> topic directly, but apparently I was being too optimistic.
>
> If I were asked, point blank, whether this list actually cares about 
> antisemitism in CU as anything other than a trigger for pre-cooked 
> tirades, at this point I'd have to say no, not to any noticeable 
> degree, except apparently as a springboard to launch into a discussion 
> about the JFK assassination.
>
> Like I said -- wow.
>
> @%<
>
> On 2012-11-23 12:21, David Johnson wrote:
>> " Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy
>> theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of
>> time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real
>> problems in the world. "
>>
>> NORMAN FINKELSTEIN HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS PHENOMENA,
>> THAT  BEING " THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY ", THAT HAS NOT ONLY MADE CERTAIN
>> PEOPLE MONEY BUT HAS MORE IMPORTENTLY, AS YOU DESCRIBED DAVID, BEEN
>> USED TO DISTRACT AND JUSTIFY THE NAZI LIKE BEHAVIOUR OF THE ISRAELI
>> GOVERNMENT.
>>
>> IN TERMS OF THE JFK ASSASINATION AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS, AS
>> OPPOSED TO THEORIES OR GOVERNMANT COVER-UPS LIKE THE BUSH APPOINTED
>> 9/11 COMMISION AND THE WARREN COMMISSION, I WOULD RESPECTFULLY
>> DISAGREE.
>> KENNEDY ASSASINATION, M.L. KING ASSASINATION, MALCOLM X ASSASINATION,
>> AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS SHOULD BE STUDIED AND DISCUSSED ALONG WITH
>> DOCUMENTED FACTS OF : COINTELPRO, CIA SPONSORED COUPS AND
>> ASSASINATIONS, RIGGED ELECTONS, FALSE FLAG ACTIONS, ETC..
>> THE IMPORTENCE IS TWO FOLD ;
>> 1) TO KNOW WHAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS DONE IN THE PAST ON BEHALF OF
>> THE 1 %, SO THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL KNOW AND HENCE NOT BELIEVE
>> THE LIES OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, ETC.. TO JUSTIFY MILITARY
>> ACTIONS AND THE ABUSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES.
>> 2) WHEN DEALING WITH ANY GROUP OF CRIMINALS LIKE THE U.S, RULING
>> CLASS 1%, ONE MUST KNOW THEIR M.O., WHICH WILL ALSO ALLOW THE AMERICAN
>> PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND HOPEFULLY HOW TO PREVENT / DEAL WITH
>> IT IN THE FUTURE.
>>
>> OF COURSE SINCE 9/11 2001 THE RULING CLASS AND THE CORPORATE MEDIA
>> HAS DONE AN EXTENSIVE PROPOGANDA CAMPAIGN TO CONVINCE MANY PEOPLE IN
>> THE U.S. THAT ANY ACCUSATION ( NO MATTER HOW WELL DOCUMENTED )
>> OF COLLABORATION / MISDEEDS BY THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL IS "
>> CONSPIRACY THEORY " AND HENCE NOT TRUE.
>> AS IF THE WEALTHY AND THE POWERFUL DON'T COORDINATE ACTIONS OR EVEN
>> TALK TO EACH OTHER.
>>
>> I DO AGREE DAVID THAT ONE SHOULD NOT SPEND TOO MUCH TIME DWELLING ON
>> THESE SORT OF THINGS, HOWEVER TO IGNORE THE CRIMINAL HISTORY AND PAST
>> PRACTICES OF THE 1 % RULING CLASS IS AT OUR OWN PERIL.
>>
>> DAVID JOHNSON
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> FROM: David Green
>>> TO: peace-discuss
>>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:47 PM
>>> SUBJECT: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>>>
>>> The denial that I'm worried about is, among many other things, 
>>> regarding the willful and planned Israeli ethnic cleansing of the 
>>> Palestinians, begun in earnest in 1947 and continuing at the present 
>>> time. It's important, because it's widespread and politically 
>>> consequential.
>>>
>>> The small cult of Holocaust denial has had to be exaggerated out of 
>>> all proportion, partly in order to justify Israeli depredations, as 
>>> well as to distract attention from ongoing American-sponsored 
>>> atrocities around the world.
>>>
>>> Chomsky says that in the U.S., we have done the right thing by not 
>>> suppressing Holocaust denial, as they have in some countries in 
>>> Europe. Suppression and illegality only attracts more attention to 
>>> the phenomenon. In the U.S., people are allowed to deny the 
>>> Holocaust, they're recognized as lunatics, and nobody cares except a 
>>> few individuals like Deborah Lipstadt who have made careers out of 
>>> exaggerating the problem.
>>>
>>> Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy theories 
>>> & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a waste of time 
>>> and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real problems 
>>> in the world.
>>>
>>> But Holocaust denial has served well those who continue to deny what 
>>> Israel has become--of course, only with the help of American support.
>>>
>>>> FROM: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>>>> TO: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:37 PM
>>>> SUBJECT: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>>>>
>>>> Folks, some thoughts on Holocaust denial, from someone who's 
>>>> studied it for fifteen years. It's going only to peace-discuss.
>>>>
>>>> I think some background would be helpful here.
>>>>
>>>> Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory of neo-Nazi origins 
>>>> claiming that literally millions of Jews have secretly collaborated 
>>>> on a global fraud orders of magnitude larger and more complex than 
>>>> any James Bond villain could even dream of.
>>>>
>>>> Intellectually, it's on par with the folks who think that NASA and 
>>>> Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing. But on top of its idiocy, 
>>>> it adds a thick, wide, and inescapable layer of antisemitic 
>>>> wackdoodlism.
>>>>
>>>> Here's what I mean. The Watergate scandal involved under fifty 
>>>> conspirators, was protected by the most powerful man in the world, 
>>>> but it still rattled apart in just two years. The conspiracy theory 
>>>> that Holocaust deniers push requires not fifty Jews, not five 
>>>> hundred Jews, not five thousand Jews, not fifty thousand Jews, not 
>>>> five hundred thousand Jews, but five million Jews -- roughly a 
>>>> quarter of the world's Jewish population -- to stick impeccably to 
>>>> a criminal script flawlessly for over sixty years. As such, it 
>>>> ascribes to the Jews an inexplicable and inhuman capacity for 
>>>> criminality of the largest imaginable dimensions.
>>>>
>>>> What would you say to someone who tells you that one quarter of all 
>>>> people of Italian descent are active in the Cosa Nostra? You would 
>>>> rightly assail his idiocy, his paranoia, and his bigotry. Yet this 
>>>> is not that different from what Holocaust deniers claim about the 
>>>> world's Jews.
>>>>
>>>> It is like a burning cross. There is no dignified way to turn your 
>>>> eyes and pretend you didn't see it when it happens in your own town.
>>>>
>>>> If there is interest, I'd be happy to give a talk on the topic -- 
>>>> its neo-Nazi origins, and its attempt in the mid-2000's to repaint 
>>>> itself as "anti-Zionist" rather than "pro-Adolf" in order to try 
>>>> recruiting on the progressive left, while telling exactly the same 
>>>> lies. Few on the left have been fooled. But, as we have learned 
>>>> locally, few is not none.
>>>>
>>>> David @%<
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss [1]
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>>
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>>
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