[Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
"E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森"
ewj at pigsqq.org
Sat Nov 24 04:08:19 UTC 2012
Zero is very patient and takes on the characteristics what is added to it.
On 11/24/12 10:53, David Green wrote:
> "It has its own local Patient Zero."
> Who might that be?
> I've been quite clear (per Chomsky & Finkelstein) about the fact that
> inappropriate emphasis on the power of the Israel Lobby borders on
> anti-semitism--not the kind that will actually bring harm to Jews, but
> the kind that will discredit the Palestinian cause, as well as
> distract Americans interested in that cause from the nature of the
> workings of their own support for Israel in the Middle East.
> There are some on the left who can be fairly accused of professing
> "the socialism of fools." Nevertheless, there is an overwhelming
> tendency to carefully separate criticism of Israel from criticism of
> Jews--to a fault.
> Then there are those who profess the liberalism of fools. In the
> 1960s, some of these were honest enough to begin to call themselves
> neoconservatives, and display their imperial mentality for all to see.
> Others cling to the hope that the existence of the "new anti-semitism"
> on the left will vindicate their support for Israel, and U.S. foreign
> policy in general, as some sort of a humanitarian mission.
> Most liberal Jews, now repelled by Netanyahu and those to his right,
> find themselves confused and silenced. They vote for Obama on the
> basis of identity politics.
> Please keep me informed on how the witchhunt for anti-semites on the
> left is proceeding. From what I hear, the fascists in Greece, Hungary,
> and Florida like to wave the Israeli flag. That isn't at all
> surprisng, given the legacy of Israel's relationship with apartheid
> South Africa. When it comes to digging up some non-Muslim
> anti-semites, the left is pretty much all that's left. They won't find
> many, so they'll have to invent them. Maybe the F.B.I. can train some
> informants to pay mentally ill leftists to say nasty things about Jews.
> I would add that David Gehrig has stooped so low as to enter comments
> using my name on the Daily Illini website to try to frame me as an
> anti-semite. On that basis, even beyond his comments here, he can't be
> taken seriously.
> I predict that you won't be hearing from him on this list anymore, and
> not be because of any censorship.
> David Green
>
> *From:* David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
> *To:* peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> *Sent:* Friday, November 23, 2012 6:12 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
>
> All I can say is, wow.
>
> Folks, it's really very simple.
>
> There is a forty-year-old strain of antisemitic propaganda which
> started with the fascist right and is now reshaping itself to
> build an audience on the left.
>
> It has made its first appearance on the left here in CU.
>
> It has its own local Patient Zero.
>
> I was hoping for at least one response that actually addressed the
> topic directly, but apparently I was being too optimistic.
>
> If I were asked, point blank, whether this list actually cares
> about antisemitism in CU as anything other than a trigger for
> pre-cooked tirades, at this point I'd have to say no, not to any
> noticeable degree, except apparently as a springboard to launch
> into a discussion about the JFK assassination.
>
> Like I said -- wow.
>
> @%<
>
> On 2012-11-23 12:21, David Johnson wrote:
> > " Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy
> > theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a
> waste of
> > time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the real
> > problems in the world. "
> >
> > NORMAN FINKELSTEIN HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS PHENOMENA,
> > THAT BEING " THE HOLOCAUST INDUSTRY ", THAT HAS NOT ONLY MADE
> CERTAIN
> > PEOPLE MONEY BUT HAS MORE IMPORTENTLY, AS YOU DESCRIBED DAVID, BEEN
> > USED TO DISTRACT AND JUSTIFY THE NAZI LIKE BEHAVIOUR OF THE ISRAELI
> > GOVERNMENT.
> >
> > IN TERMS OF THE JFK ASSASINATION AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS, AS
> > OPPOSED TO THEORIES OR GOVERNMANT COVER-UPS LIKE THE BUSH APPOINTED
> > 9/11 COMMISION AND THE WARREN COMMISSION, I WOULD RESPECTFULLY
> > DISAGREE.
> > KENNEDY ASSASINATION, M.L. KING ASSASINATION, MALCOLM
> X ASSASINATION,
> > AND THE 9/11 ATTACK FACTS SHOULD BE STUDIED AND DISCUSSED ALONG WITH
> > DOCUMENTED FACTS OF : COINTELPRO, CIA SPONSORED COUPS AND
> > ASSASINATIONS, RIGGED ELECTONS, FALSE FLAG ACTIONS, ETC..
> > THE IMPORTENCE IS TWO FOLD ;
> > 1) TO KNOW WHAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAS DONE IN THE PAST ON
> BEHALF OF
> > THE 1 %, SO THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL KNOW AND HENCE NOT BELIEVE
> > THE LIES OF WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION, ETC.. TO JUSTIFY MILITARY
> > ACTIONS AND THE ABUSE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES.
> > 2) WHEN DEALING WITH ANY GROUP OF CRIMINALS LIKE THE U.S, RULING
> > CLASS 1%, ONE MUST KNOW THEIR M.O., WHICH WILL ALSO ALLOW THE
> AMERICAN
> > PEOPLE TO KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT AND HOPEFULLY HOW TO PREVENT /
> DEAL WITH
> > IT IN THE FUTURE.
> >
> > OF COURSE SINCE 9/11 2001 THE RULING CLASS AND THE CORPORATE MEDIA
> > HAS DONE AN EXTENSIVE PROPOGANDA CAMPAIGN TO CONVINCE MANY PEOPLE IN
> > THE U.S. THAT ANY ACCUSATION ( NO MATTER HOW WELL DOCUMENTED )
> > OF COLLABORATION / MISDEEDS BY THE WEALTHY AND POWERFUL IS "
> > CONSPIRACY THEORY " AND HENCE NOT TRUE.
> > AS IF THE WEALTHY AND THE POWERFUL DON'T COORDINATE ACTIONS OR EVEN
> > TALK TO EACH OTHER.
> >
> > I DO AGREE DAVID THAT ONE SHOULD NOT SPEND TOO MUCH TIME DWELLING ON
> > THESE SORT OF THINGS, HOWEVER TO IGNORE THE CRIMINAL HISTORY AND
> PAST
> > PRACTICES OF THE 1 % RULING CLASS IS AT OUR OWN PERIL.
> >
> > DAVID JOHNSON
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> FROM: David Green
> >> TO: peace-discuss
> >> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:47 PM
> >> SUBJECT: Re: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
> >>
> >> The denial that I'm worried about is, among many other things,
> regarding the willful and planned Israeli ethnic cleansing of the
> Palestinians, begun in earnest in 1947 and continuing at the
> present time. It's important, because it's widespread and
> politically consequential.
> >>
> >> The small cult of Holocaust denial has had to be exaggerated
> out of all proportion, partly in order to justify Israeli
> depredations, as well as to distract attention from ongoing
> American-sponsored atrocities around the world.
> >>
> >> Chomsky says that in the U.S., we have done the right thing by
> not suppressing Holocaust denial, as they have in some countries
> in Europe. Suppression and illegality only attracts more attention
> to the phenomenon. In the U.S., people are allowed to deny the
> Holocaust, they're recognized as lunatics, and nobody cares except
> a few individuals like Deborah Lipstadt who have made careers out
> of exaggerating the problem.
> >>
> >> Spending 15 years studying Holocuast denial, JFK conspiracy
> theories & 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. should be seen as a
> waste of time and a distraction by anyone who is serious about the
> real problems in the world.
> >>
> >> But Holocaust denial has served well those who continue to deny
> what Israel has become--of course, only with the help of American
> support.
> >>
> >>> FROM: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org
> <mailto:david-cu at nukulele.org>>
> >>> TO: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> >>> SENT: Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:37 PM
> >>> SUBJECT: [Peace-discuss] a note on Holocaust denial
> >>>
> >>> Folks, some thoughts on Holocaust denial, from someone who's
> studied it for fifteen years. It's going only to peace-discuss.
> >>>
> >>> I think some background would be helpful here.
> >>>
> >>> Holocaust denial is a conspiracy theory of neo-Nazi origins
> claiming that literally millions of Jews have secretly
> collaborated on a global fraud orders of magnitude larger and more
> complex than any James Bond villain could even dream of.
> >>>
> >>> Intellectually, it's on par with the folks who think that NASA
> and Stanley Kubrick faked the moon landing. But on top of its
> idiocy, it adds a thick, wide, and inescapable layer of
> antisemitic wackdoodlism.
> >>>
> >>> Here's what I mean. The Watergate scandal involved under fifty
> conspirators, was protected by the most powerful man in the world,
> but it still rattled apart in just two years. The conspiracy
> theory that Holocaust deniers push requires not fifty Jews, not
> five hundred Jews, not five thousand Jews, not fifty thousand
> Jews, not five hundred thousand Jews, but five million Jews --
> roughly a quarter of the world's Jewish population -- to stick
> impeccably to a criminal script flawlessly for over sixty years.
> As such, it ascribes to the Jews an inexplicable and inhuman
> capacity for criminality of the largest imaginable dimensions.
> >>>
> >>> What would you say to someone who tells you that one quarter
> of all people of Italian descent are active in the Cosa Nostra?
> You would rightly assail his idiocy, his paranoia, and his
> bigotry. Yet this is not that different from what Holocaust
> deniers claim about the world's Jews.
> >>>
> >>> It is like a burning cross. There is no dignified way to turn
> your eyes and pretend you didn't see it when it happens in your
> own town.
> >>>
> >>> If there is interest, I'd be happy to give a talk on the topic
> -- its neo-Nazi origins, and its attempt in the mid-2000's to
> repaint itself as "anti-Zionist" rather than "pro-Adolf" in order
> to try recruiting on the progressive left, while telling exactly
> the same lies. Few on the left have been fooled. But, as we have
> learned locally, few is not none.
> >>>
> >>> David @%<
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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