[Peace-discuss] Juan Cole - Ten myths about the Israeli attack on Gaza

"E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" ewj at pigsqq.org
Wed Nov 28 14:50:05 UTC 2012 

I have tonnes of respect for Chomsky.

I had read this before including the part about "navi"   ( איבנ)
being poorly translated as "prophet".

It doesn't seem to be all that difficult to me.  To prophesy is nava אבנ
and one who speaks under divine inspiration is איבנ navi.

I dont really think it is the same thing as intellect but it's
not anti-intellectual exactly.  It's speaking under divine influence
directly or from revelation knowledge.  There are a few modern day
prophets around today (many evangelicals deny this vehemently).

One well-known example most would agree about would be MLK jr.

King Saul hung out with the prophets navi'im and got close enough to
the influence of the divine spirit that he prophesied nava too.




On 11/28/12 11:58, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
> Nov. 12, 2010: 
> <http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/50260/qa-noam-chomsky>. 
>
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2012, at 9:47 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu 
> <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>
>> What is the date of the Chomsky quotes?
>>
>> --mkb
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:17 PM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
>>
>>> It would be interesting to see what the Israeli government would do 
>>> if the US were to withdraw military, economic, ideological, and 
>>> diplomatic support.
>>>
>>> Perhaps they'd be forced to make some regional arrangement with 
>>> their neighbors.
>>>
>>> Chomsky has noted that their "threat to 'go crazy' ('nishtagea') – 
>>> that is, launch a tough response – is deeply rooted, stretching back 
>>> to the Labor governments of the 1950s, along with the 
>>> related 'Samson Complex': 'If crossed, we will bring down the Temple 
>>> walls around us.'"
>>>
>>> But the government that we're responsible for is in Washington, and 
>>> that's the one we and other US citizens can influence directly, as 
>>> we did during Vietnam.
>>>
>>> Chomsky said recently - correctly, it seems to me -
>>>
>>> "Part of American national culture is that we don’t look at 
>>> ourselves. In fact if you look at what I write about Israel, it’s 
>>> overwhelmingly about the United States. It’s about U.S. support 
>>> for the Israelis, not what Israel does. What Israel does is not 
>>> nice, but no state is nice.
>>>
>>> "But it’s quite different for us. We don’t support killings in the 
>>> eastern Congo. Or Chinese repression of dissidents. But 
>>> we’re completely responsible for what Israel does. Israel isn’t 
>>> entirely an American satellite, but pretty close to it. They 
>>> couldn’t do what they’re doing if it weren’t for the decisive 
>>> support of the United States...
>>>
>>> "The United States destroyed Iraq. Of course that should be 
>>> harshly condemned. In fact I do it much more than I talk about 
>>> Israel. In the case of the Vietnam war, we basically destroyed three 
>>> countries. They’ll never recover. Same with Nicaragua. Same with 
>>> Cuba. Go on and on. Same with Chile. That’s what we ought to be 
>>> concentrating on. Israel happens to be a subcase of a larger problem."
>>>
>>> It's the "larger problem" that AWARE should primarily be concerned 
>>> with. It certainly shouldn't accept the administration's invitation 
>>> to look away from what the US has done and is doing.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 6:42 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" 
>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Israeli designs on a "Greater Israel" do not depend on the 
>>>> U.S.. That is a major ingredient behind Israeli aggression and 
>>>> repression of the Palestinians.  Israel, with its Zionist ideology, 
>>>> will continue its repression. The U.S. is not likely to interfere, 
>>>> perhaps unable to interfere, even if it reduces its support. Yes, 
>>>> you are deflecting criticism of Israeli actions by this one-sided 
>>>> position.  As I've stated, both issues need to be emphasized.
>>>>
>>>>  --mkb
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's hardly excusing Israeli actions/aggression to point out that 
>>>>> those crimes would be impossible without US support.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that's what Americans need to know.
>>>>>
>>>>> Israeli crimes are different in that regard from, say, crimes by 
>>>>> China, Russia, or France.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:41 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" 
>>>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you excusing Israeli actions/aggression? Should not U.S. 
>>>>>> citizens be so informed? I find this reply hollow.
>>>>>> --mkb
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 5:23 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We're writing a flyer for US  - not Israeli - citizens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "The fundamental issue is quite simple: Every U.S. taxpayer is 
>>>>>>> responsible for Israeli crimes. They can’t carry them out 
>>>>>>> without the decisive military, economic, ideological, and 
>>>>>>> diplomatic support of the United States" 
>>>>>>> <http://www.zcommunications.org/q-and-a-with-noam-chomsky-by-noam-chomsky>. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 4:13 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" 
>>>>>>> <brussel at illinois.edu <mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What is obvious is that Carl's preferences lie with Ron Paul's 
>>>>>>>> piece, which exclusively emphasizes U.S. 
>>>>>>>> responsibility/culpability. Cole's piece exclusively emphasizes 
>>>>>>>> Israel's responsibility/culpability.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both should be emphasized.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --mkb
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 3:44 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If we're looking for a primer on Israel/Gaza, I almost think 
>>>>>>>>> this would be better:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/27/how-to-end-the-gaza-tragedy/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:35 AM, Stuart Levy 
>>>>>>>>> <stuartnlevy at gmail.com <mailto:stuartnlevy at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At AWARE on Sunday we talked about having a flyer for this 
>>>>>>>>>> Saturday's demonstration which talked about Israel/Palestine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Carl had found a good one from Max Ajl, but here's another, 
>>>>>>>>>> from Juan Cole on 11/17 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html>, 
>>>>>>>>>> which may be a better introduction to people who haven't been 
>>>>>>>>>> paying close attention to the subject.   (See the original 
>>>>>>>>>> article too - there's an interesting map summarizing 
>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian refugee migrations.)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.juancole.com/2012/11/top-ten-myths-about-israeli-attack-on-gaza.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Top Ten Myths about Israeli Attack on Gaza*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Posted on 11/17/2012 by Juan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Israeli hawks represent themselves as engaged in a ‘peace 
>>>>>>>>>> process’ with the Palestinians in which Hamas refuses to 
>>>>>>>>>> join. In fact, Israel has refused to cease colonizing and 
>>>>>>>>>> stealing Palestinian land long enough to engage in fruitful 
>>>>>>>>>> negotiations with them. Tel Aviv routinely announces new, 
>>>>>>>>>> unilateral house-building on the Palestinian West Bank 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/06/us-palestinians-israel-settlements-idUSBRE8A50I820121106?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews>. 
>>>>>>>>>> There is no peace process. It is an Israeli and American 
>>>>>>>>>> sham. Talking about a peace process is giving cover to 
>>>>>>>>>> Israeli nationalists who are determined to grab everything 
>>>>>>>>>> the Palestinians have and reduce them to penniless refugees 
>>>>>>>>>> (again).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Actions such as the assault on Gaza can achieve no genuine 
>>>>>>>>>> long-term strategic purpose. They are being launched to 
>>>>>>>>>> ensure that Jewish-Israelis are the first to exploit key 
>>>>>>>>>> resources. Rattling sabers at the Palestinians creates a 
>>>>>>>>>> pretext for further land-grabs and colonies on Palestinian 
>>>>>>>>>> land. That is, the military action against the people of Gaza 
>>>>>>>>>> is a diversion tactic; the real goal is Greater Israel, an 
>>>>>>>>>> assertion of Israeli sovereignty 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pillar-built-on-sand/> 
>>>>>>>>>> over all the territory once held by the British Mandate of 
>>>>>>>>>> Palestine.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Israeli hawks represent their war of aggression as in 
>>>>>>>>>> ‘self-defense.’ But the UK Israeli chief rabbi admitted on 
>>>>>>>>>> camera that that the Gaza attack actually ‘had something to 
>>>>>>>>>> do with Iran.’ 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/nov/16/bbc-apologises-chief-rabbi-jonathan-sacks-gaza>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 4. Israeli hawks demonize the Palestinians of Gaza as “bad 
>>>>>>>>>> neighbors” who don’t accept Israel. But 40% of the people in 
>>>>>>>>>> Gaza are refugees, mostly living in refugee camps, from 
>>>>>>>>>> families in pre-1948 Palestine that had lived there for 
>>>>>>>>>> millennia.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They were expelled from what is now Israel in the 1948 
>>>>>>>>>> Zionist ethnic cleansing campaign 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://suite101.com/article/gaza-refugee-camps-1948-present-a211374>. 
>>>>>>>>>> Israelis are now living in their homes and farming their 
>>>>>>>>>> land, and they were never paid any reparations for the crimes 
>>>>>>>>>> done to them. [pdf] “Israel’s failure to provide reparations 
>>>>>>>>>> to Palestinian refugees over the past six decades is in 
>>>>>>>>>> blatant violation of international law.” 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.fmreview.org/FMRpdfs/FMR26/FMR2624.pdf> Israel 
>>>>>>>>>> does not accept Palestine’s right to exist, even though it is 
>>>>>>>>>> constantly demanding that everyone, including the displaced 
>>>>>>>>>> and occupied Palestinians, recognize Israel’s right to exist.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 5. Israeli hawks and their American clones depict Gaza as a 
>>>>>>>>>> foreign, hostile state with which Israel is at war. In fact, 
>>>>>>>>>> the Gaza strip is a small territory of 1.7 million people 
>>>>>>>>>> militarily occupied by Israel 
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CG8QFjAI&url=https%3A%2F%2Fopenaccess.leidenuniv.nl%2Fbitstream%2F1887%2F13159%2F2%2FWhat%2BConstitutes%2BOccupation.pdf&ei=KDenUNOoMM6EygHbwYHYAQ&usg=AFQjCNFEJ_8IvIn6alResmt0iVO6Q-hFrg&sig2=IaQzbH1IV5V3KlnaR9F5Jw&cad=rja> 
>>>>>>>>>> (something in which the UN and other international bodies 
>>>>>>>>>> concur). Israelis do not allow it to have a port or airport, 
>>>>>>>>>> nor to export most of what it produces. Palestinians cannot 
>>>>>>>>>> work about a third of its land, which is reserved by Israel 
>>>>>>>>>> as a security buffer. As an occupied territory, it is covered 
>>>>>>>>>> by the Hague Regulations of 1907 and the Fourth Geneva 
>>>>>>>>>> Convention of 1949 on the treatment of occupied populations 
>>>>>>>>>> by their military occupier. Indiscriminate bombing of 
>>>>>>>>>> occupied territories by the occupier is clearly illegal in 
>>>>>>>>>> international law.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 6. Israeli hawks see themselves as innocent victims of 
>>>>>>>>>> bewildering Palestinian rage from Gaza. But Israel not only 
>>>>>>>>>> has kept Palestinians of Gaza in the world’s largest outdoor 
>>>>>>>>>> penitentiary, they have them under an illegal blockade 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.juancole.com/2012/10/creepy-israeli-planning-for-palestinian-food-insecurity-in-gaza-revealed.html> 
>>>>>>>>>> that for some years aimed at limiting their nutrition without 
>>>>>>>>>> altogether starving them to death. I wrote earlier:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> “The food blockade had real effects. About ten percent of 
>>>>>>>>>> Palestinian children in Gaza under 5 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.ibtimes.com/israels-blockade-gaza-puts-palestinian-childrens-health-risk-report-702821> 
>>>>>>>>>> have had their growth stunted by malnutrition. A recent 
>>>>>>>>>> report [pdf] by Save the Children and Medical Aid for 
>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians found that 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.map-uk.org/files/1052_gaza_health_report_web_version.pdf>, 
>>>>>>>>>> in addition, anemia is widespread, affecting over two-thirds 
>>>>>>>>>> of infants, 58.6 percent of schoolchildren, and over a third 
>>>>>>>>>> of pregnant mothers. “
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If any foreign power surrounded Israel, destroyed Haifa port 
>>>>>>>>>> and Tel Aviv airport, and prevented Israeli exports from 
>>>>>>>>>> being exported, what do you think Israelis would do? Oh, 
>>>>>>>>>> that’s right, it is rude to see both Palestinians and 
>>>>>>>>>> Israelis as equal human beings.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 7. Israeli hawks demonize the Palestinian residents of Gaza 
>>>>>>>>>> as followers of Hamas, a party-militia of the Muslim 
>>>>>>>>>> religious right. But half of Palestinians in Gaza are minors, 
>>>>>>>>>> who never voted for Hamas and cannot be held collectively 
>>>>>>>>>> responsible for that party.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 8. Israeli hawks justify their aggression on the Palestinians 
>>>>>>>>>> on grounds of self-defense. But Israel is a country of 7.5 
>>>>>>>>>> million people with tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, 
>>>>>>>>>> helicopter gunships and F-16s and F-18s, plus 400 nuclear 
>>>>>>>>>> warheads. Gaza is a small occupied territory of 1.7 million 
>>>>>>>>>> which has no heavy weaponry, just some old guns and some 
>>>>>>>>>> largely ineffectual rockets. (Israelis cite hundreds of 
>>>>>>>>>> rockets fired into Israel from Gaza in 2012; but until 
>>>>>>>>>> Israel’s recent attack they had killed not a single Israeli, 
>>>>>>>>>> though they did wound a few last March when fighting between 
>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians and Israelis escalated.) Gaza is a threat to 
>>>>>>>>>> Israel the way the Transkei Bantustan was a threat to 
>>>>>>>>>> Apartheid South Africa. As for genuine asymmetrical threats 
>>>>>>>>>> from Gaza to Israel, they could be dealt with by giving the 
>>>>>>>>>> Palestinians a state and ceasing the blockade imposed on 
>>>>>>>>>> them, or in the worst case scenario counter-terrorism 
>>>>>>>>>> targeted at terrorists rather than indiscriminate bombing 
>>>>>>>>>> campaigns.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 9. Israeli hawks maintain that they were provoked into the 
>>>>>>>>>> attack. But actually Ahmad Jabari, the Hamas leader the 
>>>>>>>>>> Israelis assassinated earlier this week, had been engaged in 
>>>>>>>>>> talks with the Israelis about a truce 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-peace-activist-hamas-leader-jabari-killed-amid-talks-on-long-term-truce.premium-1.478085>. 
>>>>>>>>>> Assassinations achieved by the ruse of openness to peace 
>>>>>>>>>> talks are guarantees of no further peace talks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 10. Although most American media is a cheering section for 
>>>>>>>>>> the Likud Party, in fact the world is increasingly done out 
>>>>>>>>>> with Israel’s aggressiveness 
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/11/16/john-mearsheimer/a-pillar-built-on-sand/>. 
>>>>>>>>>> Boycotts and sanctions will likely grow over time, leaving 
>>>>>>>>>> Israeli hawks with a deficit…
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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