[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [Peace] Farmer's Market andDemonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama'sspeech?

Sun Sep 2 19:33:50 UTC 2012

Maybe so, Chris, but I sure wouldn't vote for, or campaign for, or even hope that that shallow, rich, cold conservative machine gets in office.   Too risky, too much to lose.   After 8 years of that conservative Bush dung & recent actions of right wing governors, I cannot face another 4 years or more.  We lost so much, and not all of that damage has been repaired, & some conservative governors have done perhaps irreparable damage.  Meanwhile people have suffered in loss of freedom, wage losses, decrease in union power, loss of rights to organize, to strike, payroll deduction of union dues. No it is not worth the risk of whatever comes next to hope that a conservative win results in a better Spring.  It might just backfire & we end up with something more akin to fascism, more than we already have.  NO!  I am not willing to take that risk!

Sent from my iPhone
Germaine Light

On Sep 2, 2012, at 11:21 AM, Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Furthermore, is Obama more likely to feel pressure now before the election or after he's won and isn't too concerned about pleasing anyone. Let's remember, the "shellacking" he got in 2010 wasn't due to a mandate, but rather so many people who came out in droves in 2008 just stayed home. Perhaps we didn't get an American spring because too many people are concerned about the elections and how it would reflect on Obama. 
> 
> If Romney gets elected, there is a good chance it has to do with the job Obama has done or not done. Maybe with a Romney presidency, things will get worse faster and people may just start paying attention and get out on the streets without having to worry about who is in office. 
> 
> Chris
> (217) 898-5039
> 
> 
> On Sep 2, 2012, at 11:09, "David Johnson" <dlj725 at hughes.net> wrote:
> 
>> It's NOT ass backwards at all !
>>  
>> For the simple fact that the Dems are in power of  the Presidency which controls the Injustice Department, who are the one's persecuting the whistle blowers.
>>  
>> David J.
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jenifer Cartwright
>> To: C. G. Estabrook ; Gregg Gordon
>> Cc: Peace Discuss ; ocCUpy ; Peace
>> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 4:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market andDemonstration on Saturday;and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama'sspeech?
>> 
>> Sorry, clarifying my position: 
>> Yes, continue war/drone protests as usual -- both candidates are on record for those
>> Defer whistle-blower protests until after the election -- nothing from the Romney camp re these (surely same as- or worse than Dems), plus there were no protests at Repub convention for those. Already expecting huge protests at Dem Conven compared w/ Repubs. ass-backwards thinking, imho.
>> --- On Sat, 9/1/12, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> From: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?
>> To: "C. G. Estabrook" <cge at shout.net>
>> Cc: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com>, "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace" <peace at anti-war.net>
>> Date: Saturday, September 1, 2012, 3:15 PM
>> 
>> So how many Americans died in Iraq this week?  And how's the missile shield in eastern Europe coming (to cite just two significant differences with the Bush Administration)?
>> 
>> Look -- I'm not saying give anyone a pass on anything.  I'm saying make your point strategically and intelligently.  It's likely to improve your effectiveness.  
>> 
>> Frankly, I don't think there's anything a handful of people in C-U are going to do in the next two months that will make an iota's difference to the outcome of the election or the future of Bradley Manning.  I would guess 95% of the people who drive by any such demonstration will have no idea who Bradley Manning is, and there's nothing you can put on a placard that will inform them.  It won't            even be covered by the local newspaper.  So in that respect, I don't care, but the larger point is worth considering.  Do we do these things to fulfill a sense of righteous indignation, or are we trying to have an impact on future events?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>
>> To: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> 
>> Cc: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; ocCUpy <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net> 
>> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?
>> 
>> It's important to assess how important the difference it makes is. The answer seems to be, not much.
>>  
>> Obama - although he campaigned against them - followed Bush's economic and military polices, if in a more brutal and efficient fashion.
>> 
>> That may be some slight reason to vote against him, but it's certainly not a reason to support him.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 1, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I find it mind-boggling that anyone who lived through the years 2000-2008 really believes "it makes no difference."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>
>>> To: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com> 
>>> Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; ocCUpy <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net> 
>>> Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:10 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?
>>> 
>>> I think it's wrong to give Obama a pass on Bradley Manning and hold off on condemning his crimes - from the suppression of WikiLeaks to the murders of Americans and others - for ostensible fear of a candidate (Romney) who
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