[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy

Thu Sep 13 00:08:59 UTC 2012

While I normally try to stay out of listserv battles, as a white male I
feel the responsibility to challenge other white males when they are
so blatantly perpetuating patriarchy and/or white supremacy. In particular,
I cannot believe the comments directed at Rachel, one of the hardest
working organizers in our community. The two responses to Rachel thus far
are examples of how the patriarchy permeates our society and this listserv.

First Comment:

"There is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can listen to
> white men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually
> anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford me."
>
> Rachel, do you think that an individual's views can be reduced and/or
> dismissed on account of their age, race, and/or gender?
>
This is example of how men feel entitled to choose the parameters of
"acceptable discussion". Whenever a woman or person of color brings up
issues of race or gender, a reactionary white man responds with something
like " What does this have to do with race/gender? You're the one bringing
up race/gender, therefore you are the one who is racist/sexist".

It is not a matter of reducing one to their race, age, gender, class, etc,
its about acknowledging privilege and how that affects one's orientation
towards others. The term "mansplaining" is used to describe the tendency of
men to feel entitled to "tell it like it is" to others. In other words, men
are somehow the subject matter experts on *everything *and need to tell *you
* "how the world really is" or "the truth" or whatever. The issue is not
the content one's statement; *it is the presumption of authority*. This
tendency is exacerbated by whiteness, class privilege, and education level.
I've met way too many white dudes from upper middle class backgrounds and
graduate degrees who want to show everyone how smart and knowledgeable they
are.

This is not to say, however, that one is bound to act in such a way. It is
a challenge to those with privilege to reflect upon that privilege, on how
it permeates their life, and to think about how they, as privileged members
of society, can be an ally to oppressed communities.

David, I am not trying to argue that you act in such a way. However, your
comment was a prompt for a response and this group needs some discussion
about white and male privilege.

Second comment:

How does silly and childish compare with shrewish and bitchy on the value
scale?

This is such such a typical patriarchal response to a woman speaking up
that it would be comical if it were not the case that this man actually
lives in our community. Whenever a woman speaks up and challenges the men,
she becomes "the bitch". It doesn't matter what she says.Her words are not
heard. Only the challenge to male authority is heard.  Compare this to when
a man speaks out. When a man speaks out, he is heard and his thoughts are
acknowledged to be worthy of discussion. Men can "reason" together in
groups. Women, however, are too emotional and, perhaps, too intellectually
inferior to be worthy of discussion. And, again, if a woman brings up the
claim that men are being patriarchal or misogynistic, she is berated for
being divisive or deviating from the important discussion (you know, the
one the men are having).

I find the discussions on this listserv to be very mean spirited, and most
importantly, disorganizing. This is not the mode of discourse folks should
use who want to organize for economic and social justice. You cannot work
towards building a mass movement if you can't stop being an asshole.

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:38 PM, Sarah Lazare <sarah.lazare at gmail.com>wrote:

> Rachel,
>
> We've very much appreciated your comments on this thread. Thanks for your
> strong feminist voice and leadership. We've often found that it's the
> moments when we're trying the hardest and putting ourselves out there the
> most that we face the greatest attack. I hope everyone who's had the good
> luck to work with Rachel can find your own way of showing her your love and
> appreciation. Here's to building a culture of liberatory, respectful debate
> and discussion within our movements.
>
> In Solidarity,
> Sarah Lazare and Brook Celeste
>
> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Rickman, Aimee N <arickman at illinois.edu>wrote:
>
>>  Whoah.
>>
>>
>>     **************Apologies for any random question marks my system has
>> weirdly added to this email********************
>>
>>  *From:* occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net [
>> occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of E. Wayne Johnson [
>> ewj at pigsqq.org]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2012 3:58 PM
>> *To:* Rachel Storm
>> *Cc:* peace-discuss at anti-war.net; David Green;
>> occupycu at lists.chambana.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo
>> prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy
>>
>>       How does silly and childish compare with shrewish and bitchy on
>> the value scale?
>>
>>
>> On 9/13/2012 3:08 AM, Rachel Storm wrote:
>>
>> David,
>>
>>  I sent this email to Occupy, not Peace Discuss and your question
>> illustrates precisely what I seek to illuminate. Listservs are designed for
>> the people on them. Not others and the assumption isn't that they will be
>> forwarded willy nilly to folks off of the list. I expect that from people
>> typically, but not from people I am trying to build movements with--we can
>> do better. I'm not going to engage with you, when you seek no understanding
>> and only want to ignite debate. It's silly and childish.
>>
>>  Rachel
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 1:46 PM, David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>>   "There is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can
>>> listen to white men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually
>>> anywhere--that's what patriarchy continues to afford me."
>>>
>>>  Rachel, do you think that an individual's views can be reduced and/or
>>> dismissed on account of their age, race, and/or gender?
>>>
>>>  David Green
>>>
>>>    *From:* C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>>> *To:* Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* peace-discuss at anti-war.net; "occupycu at lists.chambana.net" <
>>> occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:24 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] [sf-core] Another Guantánamo
>>> prisoner death highlights Democrats' hypocrisy
>>>
>>> I thought the local Occupy group supported the efforts of AWARE against
>>> US war and racism abroad - even to participating in our demonstrations.
>>>
>>> That's why I posted to the "OccupyCU" list information about the ongoing
>>> scandal of Guantanamo, which is scanted in the corporate media (as is
>>> Manning's persecution, etc.).
>>>
>>> --CGE
>>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2012, at 12:16 AM, Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > I must share this...
>>> >
>>> > I've been both terribly bored and fairly annoyed at how this Occupy
>>> listserv is being used. I am someone that cannot regularly attend Occupy
>>> meetings and for me, it's important to be able to stay connected, but what
>>> is Occupy here--in this communication space? What is worth occupying? There
>>> is nothing revolutionary about conversations here. I can listen to white
>>> men man'splain in desperate pissing contests virtually anywhere--that's
>>> what patriarchy continues to afford me. I'm tired of having to ask men in
>>> the movement to check their privilege. It shouldn't have to be asked-- I
>>> hear men in the movement say they want revolution, but I don't see
>>> willingness to do the work. We are failing to model what we seek. We need
>>> more imagination than this. We can do better.
>>> >
>>> >     • We can value dialogue over debate. Modeling that we're a
>>> community of people seeking understanding, rather than trying to get their
>>> word in edgewise. Those with privilege in the movement (men, white folks,
>>> etc.) can step back, make space, talk less/listen more. This isn't hard to
>>> do and makes a world of difference. (Just count the number of women, people
>>> of color, etc. actively engaged on these C-U activist lists or being
>>> listened to at meetings and you'll see how deep this problem is.)
>>> >     • We can "check each other" in an act of care. Knowing that we're
>>> not perfect, but we're trying and we have a responsibility to help one
>>> another grow where possible. We can tell those who are dominating
>>> conversation to step back, to ask for clarification, and to listen.
>>> >     • We can reject "occupation" as our language in solidarity with
>>> native peoples all over North America. We can privilege people of color and
>>> women's voices--knowing these voices ought to drive the movement that seeks
>>> decolonization and an end to marginalization.
>>> >     • We can spend more time imagining what we want, alternatives, and
>>> raging where it matters!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > In the past month alone, I've witnessed a silencing conversation
>>> around the rape allegations facing Assange that signals to me--as a
>>> woman--that the same men that say they care about women in the movement are
>>> no where to be found when it comes time to stand up against violence
>>> against women. I've been to meetings where women's voices were rarely
>>> heard--and I know my sisters had plenty to say!
>>> > I am reminded of Adrienne Rich who cautioned a white-led feminist
>>> movement, "Without addressing the whiteness of white feminism, our movement
>>> will turn in on itself and collapse."
>>> >
>>> > There are other voices we need in this space. This local organizing
>>> will not last unless we turn our attention to these matters.
>>> >
>>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_s3X0uW9Ec&feature=player_embedded
>>> >
>>> > love and rage,
>>> >
>>> > RS
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
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>
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>

-- 
Scott Kimball
Project Organizer
American Federation of Teachers
Higher Education Project
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