[Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Gregg Gordon
ggregg79 at yahoo.com
Wed Aug 28 23:16:49 UTC 2013
"Respectfully" Really? Who am I talking to? A 3-year-old? No, I've known 3-year-olds. They're more convincing.
Are you insincere, or just obtuse? You tell me. The only thing more transparent than your insincerity is your ineffectiveness. I've been to your meetings. My one word description -- LONELY. I've seen your tv show. Alex Jones without the entertainment. My God, you're a joke. Am I now or have I ever been a communist? Are you serious? Why would I tell you? You're a virus. You're cancer. You're death to anything you've ever been involved with. If you think I would expose my friends to that, add insane to virus and cancer.
Man, you so missed your chance at civility. You want respect? You're a loose tooth. You're a canker sore. You're a barnacle, but not so easily gotten rid of. You're dog shit on my shoe.
I'm out of your sandbox now. It's all yours.
________________________________
From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Calm down Greg,
I could say something smart ass like
" your not my type ",
but seriously, I was just
curious to see if you are involved in the community or not .
No need to be so paranoid just becasue we may
disagree on something.
David Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregg Gordon
>To: David Johnson ; Peace-discuss
>Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:27 PM
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>
>
>Why? Do you want to stalk me?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
>To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>
>
>
>Well Greg,
>
>I am truely sorry that you feel that way.
>
>Discussion / debate are at times necessary for understanding.
>
>No one threatened you or cursed at you or disrespected you, so I am not certain what you mean when you stated that " Its' impossible to have a peaceful discussion about peace .."
>
>Some of us stated our views and wanted clarification of some of your statements, so I really do not understand why you feel the way you do.
>
>What organizations are you involved with locally ?
>
>Respectfully
>
>David Johnson
>
>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Gregg Gordon
>>To: Carl G. Estabrook ; Brussel, Morton K
>>Cc: Peace-discuss
>>Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:54 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>>
>>
>>Well, I see it's impossible to have a peaceful discussion about peace, even on Peace-discuss. That's a shame. It's not just the unnecessary and uncalled for hostility, unpleasant but manageable. But you won't even argue with me. You put words in my mouth that I never said, and then you argue with that. That's pointless.
>>
>>But you've made your
points, and you've made mine as well. When you might have convinced
me, instead you alienated me. I don't know in what school of activism you
learned that tactic, but I question its effectiveness. All you
succeeded in doing is in making me marvel at the lack of mental discipline
required to obtain a Ph.D.
>>
>>As to the other questions hanging out
there, there are any number of websites you can go to -- freerepublic.com,
redstate.com. I find the stuff too sickening to quote myself, but
you'll see that you fit right in. And yes, I do belong to some groups
here. I would probably belong to yours, if only you weren't in it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
>>To: "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu>
>>Cc: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>; Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:47 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>>
>>
>>
>>I've thought for a while that the fall-back position of American liberalism, as it surrendered to the neoliberal onslaught, was a sort of hysterical anti-racism.
>>
>>
>>
>>Walter Benn Michaels argued for something like that in his "The Trouble with Diversity: How We Learned to Love Identity and Ignore Inequality" (2005).
>>
>>
>>He refined the argument in subsequent articles. "...Well, I wrote the book four or five years ago and I know more about it now than I did then. So yeah, that’s true, the book is in a certain sense a response to what seemed to me very visible on the surface, but I had much less of a sense of how that situation came about. One of the things that’s been useful—I know it’s been useful for me, but I think it’s actually be useful in general for at least some people on the Left in thinking about these issues—has been the popularization of the concept of neoliberalism, which has given us a better ability to periodize the history of capitalism and especially of events since World War II." - [See more at: <http://jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity/#sthash.ArGHlaip.dpuf>]
>>
>>
>>Mr. Gordon is not untypical. --CGE
>>
>>
>>On Aug 27, 2013, at 9:36 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
>>
>>From someone who is on this anti-war, anti-imperialist list, this argument is sick!! I.e., that one should not slam the current despicable president because he is black (somewhat).
>>>
>>>
>>>--mkb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Aug 27, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, not exactly the reasoned responses that might lead to a meeting of the minds that I was hoping for, but as Lincoln said, "We must use the tools we have." At least it allows me to be brief.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No, I was not trying to imply that, and I did not imply that. My purpose was not to discuss Obama's policies, foreign or domestic, or what constitutional amendments our (in other contexts) racist Founding Fathers left us he may or may not have violated. That's another discussion.
>>>>
>>>>But in your own ways, you illustrate my point perfectly. Because I also read right-wing blogs, just to try to figure out how they think, and take my word, they're some pretty vicious racists. And I find the tone and even the language you two have employed here indistinguishable from what I find there. I find that amazing. And to the extent those blogs remind me of nothing so much as a lynch mob, I find it more than amazing. I find it appalling. I know the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but for an anti-racism group, that seems to be taking it too far.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Cornell West notwithstanding, most of the black people I know like Obama and are proud that he is president, and black turnout in the most recent election tells me my friends are not outliers. It seems to me an anti-racism effort would be wise to take that into account. That's the only thing I wanted to discuss.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
>>>>To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 3:13 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gee Greg,
>>>>
>>>>I hope your not trying to imply that becasue Obama is African American that he should be given a blank check to commit war crimes and impoverish Working Americans, especially African American Workers ?
>>>>
>>>>This is EXACTLEY what the 1% ruling class of this country hoped for when they recruited and helped get Obama elected.
>>>>
>>>>Frankly, while we are on the subject, some of the harshest critics of Obama have been Cornell West and Black Agenda Report.
>>>>Not to mention that if you research Obama's REAL history, you will see that he has NO common experience with the average African American in the U.S.. or for that matter any Working American.
>>>>
>>>>David Johnson
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: Gregg Gordon
>>>>>To: Brussel, Morton K ; Estabrook, Carl G
>>>>>Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net List
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 12:38 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I realize I'm probably opening a can of worms with this, but I've been wondering for a long time and all the March on Washington stuff this weekend brought it back to mind.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Why does an organization whose purpose is to fight racism so often speak with such hostility toward our first black president? It's obviously counter-intuitive, but I wonder if it also might not be counterproductive.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Gregg Gordon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> From: "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu>
>>>>>To: "Estabrook, Carl G" <galliher at illinois.edu>
>>>>>Cc: "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net List" <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "peace at anti-war.net" <peace at anti-war.net>
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:39 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I would add that this administration is now specifically threatening, and waging covert activities against, Iran and Syria, two countries of no threat to the U.S., but who are seen by this administration as a threat to "our national interests", that of corporate America and its clients.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--kb
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>But in any case a useful statement.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Aug 25, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>[The flyer is attached. Comments are welcome. The text is as follows.]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The Anti-War
Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana (AWARE)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>AWARE was
founded immediately after the attacks of September 11, 2001, by
residents of Champaign-Urbana and members of the University of
Illinois, who saw that the U.S. government would use those crimes as
an excuse to carry on and expand its wars for the control of Middle
East energy resources. For a dozen years members and friends of
AWARE have worked to end the killing by informing their fellow
citizens of the real nature of the "war on terrorism," in opposition
to the largest and most sophisticated propaganda campaign in
history, conducted by the Bush and Obama administrations, and
directed at the American people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Today the U.S. government is
threatening, invading, and occupying countries in a vast circle with
a 2500-mile radius around the Persian Gulf, from north Africa to the
borders of India and China, a region sometimes called the "Greater
Middle East." (The U.S. military calls it "Central Command.") This
region has the world's greatest concentration of oil and natural
gas, and our government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars,
month after month, to control it. Control and not just access to
these energy resources is what our government demands. We in fact
import little of our own oil supplies from the Mideast - most of our
imported oil comes from the western hemisphere, notably Canada and
Venezuela - but control of world energy supplies gives the U.S. an
unparalleled advantage over our economic rivals in Europe and
Asia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>President Obama is killing men, women, and children
around the world to "fight terrorism," he claims, but as Noam
Chomsky explains, “The Obama administration is dedicated to
increasing terrorism ... it’s doing it all over the world. Obama ...
is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists ... The drone
assassination campaigns ... are just part of it; special forces
operations and so on, all of these operations, they are terror
operations.” The U.S. Special Operations Command - in fact a
25,000-member private army run by the president - are American death
squads, who by their own account are operating in more than a
hundred countries around the world. No wonder we are hated in those
countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you object to the Obama administration's
conducting illegal and unjustified war - and lying about the reasons
for it - join us. AWARE meets every Sunday evening 5-6pm at the
White Horse Inn on in Champaign, near the UIUC campus. We discuss
the war and plan activities like the following:
>>>>>>~ Street
demonstrations. For more than a decade AWARE has conducted
demonstrations and distributed information about the war; they now
occur on the first Saturday of every month, 2-4pm, at Main and Neil
Streets in downtown Champaign. All are welcome to join us.
>>>>>>~
Information tables. At the Urbana Farmers' Market and other public
events, like the Sweet Corn Festival and the Taste of Champaign,
AWARE has tables with free printed information on the war and books,
t-shirts, buttons and bumper stickers at cost.
>>>>>>~ Television
programs. AWARE produces a weekly hour of discussion on the war,
"AWARE on the Air," seen Tuesdays at 10pm on Urbana Public
Television <http://www.urbanapublictelevision.org/>. The program is recorded unrehearsed at noon on Tuesdays in the UPTV studios. Members and friends of AWARE are invited to attend and participate in the discussion.
>>>>>>~ Articles in the local media.
Letters to the Editor in the Champaign-Urbana News-Gazette and even
the Daily Illini are one of the few ways to join a general political
discussion locally.
>>>>>>~ Demands to elected representatives. People
in Champaign-Urbana are represented in Congress by Senators Dick
Durbin and Mark Kirk, and by Representative Rodney Davis. All three
support the administration's wars and assassinations - and are in
fact urging Obama to expand the killing. You can register your
opinion by calling their Washington DC offices, which can be reached
at 202-224-3121. (Say that you are calling from Illinois' 13th
Congressional District.)
>>>>>>~ Internet presence. AWARE conducts two
email mailing lists, which you can join on the websites: <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace> for announcements, and, for discussion of the war, <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>. You can join the discussion on our Facebook page: <https://www.facebook.com/groups/305897426305/>.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>AWARE
honors the whistleblowers - Manning, Assange, Snowden
>>>>>>and others
- persecuted by the Obama
administration
>>>>>>
>>>>>>###
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Peace-discuss
mailing list
>>>>>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>><aware-flyer.doc>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Peace
mailing list
>>>>>Peace at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>Peace-discuss
mailing list
>>>>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Peace-discuss
mailing list
>>>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Peace-discuss
mailing list
>>>Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> _______________________________________________
>>Peace-discuss mailing
list
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>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>
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