[Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
David Johnson
davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net
Thu Aug 29 00:25:29 UTC 2013
WOW !
How interesting that your outburst of hate was a result of me asking you if you are involved in the community !
:" I've been to your meetings."
Which meetings are you talking about ?
" I've seen your tv show. Alex Jones without the entertainment "
Alex Jones ?? How interesting.
What would you say that Alex Jones and I have in common as far as program content ?
I would be REALLY curious to know.
" Am I now or have I ever been a communist? "
I don't know, are you ?
Or are you implying ( again ) that I am a Communist instead of a racist....
Make up your mind !
The answer is no, but I have been called worse.
"You're a virus. You're cancer. You're death to anything you've ever been involved with. If you think I would expose my friends to that, add insane to virus
and cancer ".
Is that the best ( worse ) you can say about me ?
Again nothing specific from you.
"Man, you so missed your chance at civility. You want respect? You're a loose tooth. You're a canker sore. You're a barnacle, but not so easily gotten rid of. You're dog shit on my shoe."
In general, it seems I hit some nerve that set you off.
As I stated in my last e-mail, I ( nor anyone else on this list ) ; cursed you ar disrespected you.
If you think I was not being civil just becasue i disagreed with you about something, I truely don't know what to tell you, except that sometimes the truth hurts.
But you shouldn't feel that way...the truth can set you free.
Obviously there is more to this than the initial e-mail exchange on peace discuss.
And funny how I have never seen you post to Peace Discuss prior, nor have I ever heard of you before, and except for a few encounters with C-U Occupy , nobody I know who is involved in the community in regards to social activism has ever heard of you.
So what type of editing and writting do you do ?
Where do you work ?
Are you originally from Bloomington Indiana or did you just go to school there ?
David Johnson
aka. The Plague
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregg Gordon
To: David Johnson ; Peace-discuss
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
"Respectfully" Really? Who am I talking to? A 3-year-old? No, I've known 3-year-olds. They're more convincing.
Are you insincere, or just obtuse? You tell me. The only thing more transparent than your insincerity is your ineffectiveness. I've been to your meetings. My one word description -- LONELY. I've seen your tv show. Alex Jones without the entertainment. My God, you're a joke. Am I now or have I ever been a communist? Are you serious? Why would I tell you? You're a virus. You're cancer. You're death to anything you've ever been involved with. If you think I would expose my friends to that, add insane to virus and cancer.
Man, you so missed your chance at civility. You want respect? You're a loose tooth. You're a canker sore. You're a barnacle, but not so easily gotten rid of. You're dog shit on my shoe.
I'm out of your sandbox now. It's all yours.
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From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Calm down Greg,
I could say something smart ass like
" your not my type ",
but seriously, I was just curious to see if you are involved in the community or not .
No need to be so paranoid just becasue we may disagree on something.
David Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregg Gordon
To: David Johnson ; Peace-discuss
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Why? Do you want to stalk me?
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From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Well Greg,
I am truely sorry that you feel that way.
Discussion / debate are at times necessary for understanding.
No one threatened you or cursed at you or disrespected you, so I am not certain what you mean when you stated that " Its' impossible to have a peaceful discussion about peace .."
Some of us stated our views and wanted clarification of some of your statements, so I really do not understand why you feel the way you do.
What organizations are you involved with locally ?
Respectfully
David Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregg Gordon
To: Carl G. Estabrook ; Brussel, Morton K
Cc: Peace-discuss
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Well, I see it's impossible to have a peaceful discussion about peace, even on Peace-discuss. That's a shame. It's not just the unnecessary and uncalled for hostility, unpleasant but manageable. But you won't even argue with me. You put words in my mouth that I never said, and then you argue with that. That's pointless.
But you've made your points, and you've made mine as well. When you might have convinced me, instead you alienated me. I don't know in what school of activism you learned that tactic, but I question its effectiveness. All you succeeded in doing is in making me marvel at the lack of mental discipline required to obtain a Ph.D.
As to the other questions hanging out there, there are any number of websites you can go to -- freerepublic.com, redstate.com. I find the stuff too sickening to quote myself, but you'll see that you fit right in. And yes, I do belong to some groups here. I would probably belong to yours, if only you weren't in it.
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From: Carl G. Estabrook <galliher at illinois.edu>
To: "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu>
Cc: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>; Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
I've thought for a while that the fall-back position of American liberalism, as it surrendered to the neoliberal onslaught, was a sort of hysterical anti-racism.
Walter Benn Michaels argued for something like that in his "The Trouble with Diversity: How We Learned to Love Identity and Ignore Inequality" (2005).
He refined the argument in subsequent articles. "...Well, I wrote the book four or five years ago and I know more about it now than I did then. So yeah, that’s true, the book is in a certain sense a response to what seemed to me very visible on the surface, but I had much less of a sense of how that situation came about. One of the things that’s been useful—I know it’s been useful for me, but I think it’s actually be useful in general for at least some people on the Left in thinking about these issues—has been the popularization of the concept of neoliberalism, which has given us a better ability to periodize the history of capitalism and especially of events since World War II." - [See more at: <http://jacobinmag.com/2011/01/let-them-eat-diversity/#sthash.ArGHlaip.dpuf>]
Mr. Gordon is not untypical. --CGE
On Aug 27, 2013, at 9:36 PM, "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
From someone who is on this anti-war, anti-imperialist list, this argument is sick!! I.e., that one should not slam the current despicable president because he is black (somewhat).
--mkb
On Aug 27, 2013, at 5:34 PM, Gregg Gordon wrote:
Well, not exactly the reasoned responses that might lead to a meeting of the minds that I was hoping for, but as Lincoln said, "We must use the tools we have." At least it allows me to be brief.
No, I was not trying to imply that, and I did not imply that. My purpose was not to discuss Obama's policies, foreign or domestic, or what constitutional amendments our (in other contexts) racist Founding Fathers left us he may or may not have violated. That's another discussion.
But in your own ways, you illustrate my point perfectly. Because I also read right-wing blogs, just to try to figure out how they think, and take my word, they're some pretty vicious racists. And I find the tone and even the language you two have employed here indistinguishable from what I find there. I find that amazing. And to the extent those blogs remind me of nothing so much as a lynch mob, I find it more than amazing. I find it appalling. I know the enemy of my enemy is my friend, but for an anti-racism group, that seems to be taking it too far.
Cornell West notwithstanding, most of the black people I know like Obama and are proud that he is president, and black turnout in the most recent election tells me my friends are not outliers. It seems to me an anti-racism effort would be wise to take that into account. That's the only thing I wanted to discuss.
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From: David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>
To: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
Gee Greg,
I hope your not trying to imply that becasue Obama is African American that he should be given a blank check to commit war crimes and impoverish Working Americans, especially African American Workers ?
This is EXACTLEY what the 1% ruling class of this country hoped for when they recruited and helped get Obama elected.
Frankly, while we are on the subject, some of the harshest critics of Obama have been Cornell West and Black Agenda Report.
Not to mention that if you research Obama's REAL history, you will see that he has NO common experience with the average African American in the U.S.. or for that matter any Working American.
David Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: Gregg Gordon
To: Brussel, Morton K ; Estabrook, Carl G
Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net List
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
I realize I'm probably opening a can of worms with this, but I've been wondering for a long time and all the March on Washington stuff this weekend brought it back to mind.
Why does an organization whose purpose is to fight racism so often speak with such hostility toward our first black president? It's obviously counter-intuitive, but I wonder if it also might not be counterproductive.
Gregg Gordon
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From: "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu>
To: "Estabrook, Carl G" <galliher at illinois.edu>
Cc: "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net List" <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "peace at anti-war.net" <peace at anti-war.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] AWARE flyer for Quad Day
I would add that this administration is now specifically threatening, and waging covert activities against, Iran and Syria, two countries of no threat to the U.S., but who are seen by this administration as a threat to "our national interests", that of corporate America and its clients.
--kb
But in any case a useful statement.
On Aug 25, 2013, at 10:00 AM, Carl G. Estabrook wrote:
[The flyer is attached. Comments are welcome. The text is as follows.]
The Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort of Champaign-Urbana (AWARE)
AWARE was founded immediately after the attacks of September 11, 2001, by residents of Champaign-Urbana and members of the University of Illinois, who saw that the U.S. government would use those crimes as an excuse to carry on and expand its wars for the control of Middle East energy resources. For a dozen years members and friends of AWARE have worked to end the killing by informing their fellow citizens of the real nature of the "war on terrorism," in opposition to the largest and most sophisticated propaganda campaign in history, conducted by the Bush and Obama administrations, and directed at the American people.
Today the U.S. government is threatening, invading, and occupying countries in a vast circle with a 2500-mile radius around the Persian Gulf, from north Africa to the borders of India and China, a region sometimes called the "Greater Middle East." (The U.S. military calls it "Central Command.") This region has the world's greatest concentration of oil and natural gas, and our government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars, month after month, to control it. Control and not just access to these energy resources is what our government demands. We in fact import little of our own oil supplies from the Mideast - most of our imported oil comes from the western hemisphere, notably Canada and Venezuela - but control of world energy supplies gives the U.S. an unparalleled advantage over our economic rivals in Europe and Asia.
President Obama is killing men, women, and children around the world to "fight terrorism," he claims, but as Noam Chomsky explains, “The Obama administration is dedicated to increasing terrorism ... it’s doing it all over the world. Obama ... is running the biggest terrorist operation that exists ... The drone assassination campaigns ... are just part of it; special forces operations and so on, all of these operations, they are terror operations.” The U.S. Special Operations Command - in fact a 25,000-member private army run by the president - are American death squads, who by their own account are operating in more than a hundred countries around the world. No wonder we are hated in those countries.
If you object to the Obama administration's conducting illegal and unjustified war - and lying about the reasons for it - join us. AWARE meets every Sunday evening 5-6pm at the White Horse Inn on in Champaign, near the UIUC campus. We discuss the war and plan activities like the following:
~ Street demonstrations. For more than a decade AWARE has conducted demonstrations and distributed information about the war; they now occur on the first Saturday of every month, 2-4pm, at Main and Neil Streets in downtown Champaign. All are welcome to join us.
~ Information tables. At the Urbana Farmers' Market and other public events, like the Sweet Corn Festival and the Taste of Champaign, AWARE has tables with free printed information on the war and books, t-shirts, buttons and bumper stickers at cost.
~ Television programs. AWARE produces a weekly hour of discussion on the war, "AWARE on the Air," seen Tuesdays at 10pm on Urbana Public Television <http://www.urbanapublictelevision.org/>. The program is recorded unrehearsed at noon on Tuesdays in the UPTV studios. Members and friends of AWARE are invited to attend and participate in the discussion.
~ Articles in the local media. Letters to the Editor in the Champaign-Urbana News-Gazette and even the Daily Illini are one of the few ways to join a general political discussion locally.
~ Demands to elected representatives. People in Champaign-Urbana are represented in Congress by Senators Dick Durbin and Mark Kirk, and by Representative Rodney Davis. All three support the administration's wars and assassinations - and are in fact urging Obama to expand the killing. You can register your opinion by calling their Washington DC offices, which can be reached at 202-224-3121. (Say that you are calling from Illinois' 13th Congressional District.)
~ Internet presence. AWARE conducts two email mailing lists, which you can join on the websites: <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace> for announcements, and, for discussion of the war, <https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss>. You can join the discussion on our Facebook page: <https://www.facebook.com/groups/305897426305/>.
AWARE honors the whistleblowers - Manning, Assange, Snowden
and others - persecuted by the Obama administration
###
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