[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Save books, because you can't save kids from Obama?

Fri Jul 12 18:12:07 UTC 2013

I think it's interesting to compare forms of conspiracy in the case of the
September 11 disasters. The official story is, after all, about a
conspiracy, one supported by the leaders of the Left as much as anyone.

In my opinion, the strongest case for a competing conspiracy is based on
administrative inaction. Without question, the White House was told (by the
CIA) that a terrorist attack was imminent, and Bush did nothing to prevent
it. See here for more:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0

Would the Bush White House (or any administration) have allowed this level
of destruction? Chomsky and many others have repeatedly argued against it.

In my opinion, it's easier to argue for it. Every White House
administration since I've been alive has done worse than ignore mass
destruction and death; they've presided over it.

On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>wrote:

> Here is a link from NIST offering no explanation for their conclusions.
>
> http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/factsheet/wtc_qa_082108.cfm
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2013, at 5:40 AM, "Stephen Francis" <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> The key to the WTC demolitions is WTC7.  It was the 47 story building
> within a few hundred yards of the WTC towers.  The WTC7 fell into its own
> footprint in less than 10 seconds at 5:20 on 9/11/01.  There were only a
> few small fires on two floors.  NIST offers no explanation for their
> conclusions, they just say they can't explain it.   The 9/11 bogus
> commission didn't even include this in their reports. Architects and
> Engineers for 9/11 Truth focus on WTC7 because no planes struck it. It was
> not hit by a plane and with great amazement the BBC actually reported the
> collapse a half hour before it occurred.  All this is meticulously
> documented.  I could go on and on here with far more dramatic evidence.
>  I'm sure many of you know all this.   If you continue investigating just
> WTC7 issues you find all sorts of financial and political links that are
> highly suspicious. If you can refute this with real evidence I would be
> glad to look at it.
> As far as the WTC towers themselves, no other steel frame structures have
> ever collapsed due to fire.  Here's a small list of comparable buildings
> that burned far longer and hotter and did not collapse:
> http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html  They include
> the One Meridian Plaza, First Interstate Bank, New York Plaza, Caracas
> Tower, Windsor Building, Beijing Mandarin Oriental Hotel, CTV Tower  and
> the recent fires of high rise towers in downtown Moscow and in
> Chechnya.....I could go on. They were all completely engrossed in flames
> and there was not even a hint of collapse.
> 9/11 led to the Patriot Act which has given us the NSA, Iraq,
> Afghanistan.... its all pretty clear.  No real independent investigation
> has ever occurred.  Follow the money.  Again, track down the financial and
> political connections to 9/11 and the truth will be presented to you on a
> platter.  Thank you.
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>
> *To:* David Johnson <dlj725 at hughes.net>
> *Cc:* Peace-discuss List <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; "
> occupycu at lists.chambana.net" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:37 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Save books, because you can't
> save kids from Obama?
>
> Dave,
>
> While I appreciate the offer, I don't see it as an issue. I also wouldn't
> go on the radio to discuss with birthers my opinion of that.
>
> Here's something I never quite understood. We know two planes hit the
> World Trade Center buildings. What reason would there be to place
> detonators in surrounding buildings? Did the actual perpetrators of this
> feel that two planes flying into the twin towers and one into the Pentagon
> wouldn't bring enough outrage to the American people to help justify going
> into Afghanistan or Iraq later with the right amount of propaganda? We
> would need surrounding buildings to collapse to finally put us over the
> edge?
>
> Oh wait, that's right, a plane didn't fly into the Pentagon. That was a
> missile, right? Then where did that plane go? Did it just disappear?
>
> My point is that not only do I feel I don't need to spend time and energy
> investigating 9/11, I also don't feel the need to spend time and energy
> arguing against the conspiracy theory.
>
> As far as our government is concerned involving 9/11, if anything, their
> complicity would be negligence.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2013, at 10:03 PM, "David Johnson" <dlj725 at hughes.net> wrote:
>
> *Chris,*
> **
> *I am having Stephen as a guest on the World Labor Hour a week from this
> Saturday ( July 20th ) to specificly talk about who and what the
> organization Architects and Engineers for 9-11 Truth is all about.*
> *Would you like to also come on the program to discuss this issue ?*
> **
> *David Johnson*
> **
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Chris Goodrow <c_goodrow at hotmail.com>
> *To:* Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* peace-discuss at anti-war.net ; C. G. Estabrook<carl at newsfromneptune.com>;
> occupycu <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:17 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Save books,because you can't
> save kids from Obama?
>
> I'd like to answer this one. Why is very little attention paid to the 9/11
> Truth movement? Probably because there are already enough people paying
> attention to it.
>
> You claim there are only two possible reasons people would disagree with
> this conspiracy theory. Either misinformed or a ulterior motive for doing
> so. You left out one other possibility which I feel I fall under. Maybe we
> just think it's bunk. For as many people who think this as fact, there are
> so many more who do not, many of them architects or engineers.
>
> But mostly, I think you give our government far too much credit to be able
> to first, pull this off and secondly, not get it leaked. A government that
> could pull off something this sophisticated would also be able to "find"
> WMDs. That would be a cake walk in comparison.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2013, at 7:44 AM, "Stephen Francis" <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>   I'll go out on a limb here and defend Carl Estabrook to a certain
> degree.  Why is it that certain people can get so disturbed by a 'library'
> story and then not participate in any sort of local action involving
> national issues such as fracking, jails-for-profit, manufactured wars.  It
> can be likened to CNN's calculated fixation on George Zimmerman.  But this
> is too harsh because I don't know enough about the individuals who are so
> exited about the 'library' issue..so I'll back off of that.  I agree we
> shouldn't disparage them.  I will not only defend Carl but take it one more
> step and ask why there is very little attention paid to the 9/11 Truth
> movement.
> There is more than ample proof that 9/11 was an inside job.  Anyone who
> disagrees with this has not researched or have an agenda to suppress it.
> To me it is an effective litmus test to judge the real intentions of a so
> called peace activist.  There are very powerful forces in the media and
> government who want to suppress the 9/11 Truth movement and an effective
> way is to distract via Zimmerman or other 'stories' that well up emotions.
> The Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth.org <http://truth.org/> is
> initiating a $300,000 world wide campaign to raise awareness.  AE911Truth
> is comprised of 2000 professional architects and engineers and over 17000
> supporters who prove with the laws of physics that three WTC towers were
> intentionally demolished.  A certain middle eastern country does not want
> this information known.
>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com>
> *To:* "Rickman, Aimee N" <arickman at illinois.edu>; C. G. Estabrook <
> carl at newsfromneptune.com>; "peace-discuss at anti-war.net" <
> peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
> *Cc:* occupycu <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 10, 2013 2:34 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Save books, because you can't
> save kids from Obama?
>
> Carl, and all,
>
> It's 'way easier for people to mobilize on issues that are seen as
> affecting them directly.  If more of us had relatives in AF, PK, IQ,
> Yemen, etc., then more anti-war events these days might fill rooms,
> too.  But to most people in the US, war and peace feel like pretty
> remote issues - and intractable ones.
>
> Of course not everyone feels that way.  You may remember Aimee as the
> one who led a bunch of us in demonstrating against, and publicly
> questioning, a champion of the military-industrial complex whom the U of
> I recently invited to speak on the "public good" (!) - Norman Augustine,
> ex-head of Lockheed Martin.
>
> If we want to see an anti-war movement that is as effective in
> organizing people as other local activists have been in organizing them
> over libraries, schools, and jails, then we have to find a way to make
> distant, ever-more-secret wars seem immediate and personal - and to make
> them seem other than inevitable.  (Remember the woman who, at a recent
> demonstration, commented that "no one goes to war because they *want* to.")
>
> There's no need to disparage local democratic action because we haven't
> figured out how to do that.
>
>     Stuart
>
> On 7/10/13 10:17 AM, Rickman, Aimee N wrote:
> > Carl,
> >
> > I am really troubled by this comment. Do you even know what is going on
> at the library?
> >
> > Your insinuation that the concerns raised over the situation at the
> library somehow take energy away from organizing around more important
> issues is offensive and wrong. People organizing around the library are
> addressing issues of labor, of power, of transparency, of private control
> over public spaces, with folks from CU demanding public involvement in the
> stewarding of this local public institutions.
> >
> > Is the library situation as worrisome as the US drone program? As the
> findings and treatment of Snoden, Manning, or Assange? As the dismantling
> of the voter right bill? As our continued involvement in the middle east?
> No. But it is not fair for you to pit this issue against the others and
> call one more worthy than the other. Those of us organizing around the
> library are not tunnel-visioned. We can (and do) give our attention to more
> than one issue at a time. Your comment suggests that the library is being
> challenged to the detriment of the betterment of other worthy causes. This
> is not the case. It is not a zero sum game. And it is for you to suggest
> that this is a displaced witch hunt trivializes what is going on at the
> library and demeans the powerful ripple effect that comes from movements
> such as this that encourage citizens to claim their rights and to realize
> (despite all they are told) that they can make a difference in how things
> go.
> >
> > Beyond this, your comment is a very familiar cocky discrediting of an
> effort for not being the "real" or "right" one. Why, Carl? You must see
> that this is demeaning and offensive and just plain wrong.
> >
> > Perhaps you want to learn more about what is going on at UFL? If so,
> here's a clearinghouse of information:
> http://reclaimingourlibrary.blogspot.com/
> >
> > But I am guessing you are not interested in this. I admired you on News
> from Neptune, but have grown more than weary of your eternally pessimistic
> and judgmental armchair commentary on this list. I think you're more than
> content to be in this space whether the target of your critique is Obama or
> your activist neighbors.
> >
> > It is unfortunate.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Apologies for any random question marks my system has
> weirdly added to this email********************
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: OccupyCU [occupycu-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of C. G.
> Estabrook [carl at newsfromneptune.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:11 AM
> > To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net
> > Cc: sftalk at yahoogroups.com; occupycu
> > Subject: [OccupyCU] Save books, because you can't save kids from Obama?
> >
> > Quite remarkable outrage is being displayed by people of progressive
> disposition in Urbana over the discarding of books from the local library.
> >
> > Given IT, such a decision is probably of as little importance as at any
> time since the invention of printing. But a friend plausibly suggests that
> the outrage is displaced affect, arising from our seeming inability or
> unwillingness to stop the all-but-ignored killing by our murderous
> government - or even to stop our chief magistrate (whom many library
> protestors voted for) from persecuting those who publish the truth -
> Snowden, Manning, Assange, et al.
> >
> > We choke on a culling gnat and stomach a criminal camel.
> >
> >
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2013-07-09/updated-urbana-library-seek-early-separation-director.html
> >
> > --CGE
> > _______________________________________________
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