[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Organize!
Karen Aram
karenaram at hotmail.com
Tue Jul 16 01:14:36 UTC 2013
I hear you, as a somewhat radical socialist now interested in anarchy based upon my readings of Chomsky, I only lived in Shanghai for two years, but felt very comfortable there, maybe because they don't carry guns. Over all I spent about 27 years living in Asia. I always keep in mind that as a foreigner, I receive special consideration from a gracious people, but more so in China than anywhere else. My daughters, half Chinese/Thai settled here but my eldest, after teaching a year in Suzhou, would move to Beijing or Shanghai in a heartbeat.
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 08:47:02 +0800
From: ewj at pigsqq.org
To: karenaram at hotmail.com
CC: peace-discuss\ "\"@lists.chambana.net>"
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Organize!
There are a number of lovely places around the world.
All of them have interesting challenges.
We moved back to the US from China in 2001 and
stayed 8 years 358 days 17 hours 25 minutes, approx.,
and went back to China.
It is quite interesting that an radical anarcholibertarian
like myself finds it more comfortable here and less confining
and authoritarian here than in Urbana.
On 07/16/13 0:42, Karen Aram wrote:
Wayne
Now you've got my attention and respect. Everyone elses as
well, I suspect. Yes on all counts, whatever happens or is said from
here on you've redeemed yourself and earned the right to be
skeptical. I will desist challenging your comments and sarcastic wit.
You've delivered a very worthy blue print for action, .
Thank you
PS I too often wonder why I returned to the US after years in Asia,
given the direction we're headed.
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 22:17:02 +0800
From: ewj at pigsqq.org
To: karenaram at hotmail.com
CC: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Organize!
perhaps there are two or 3 things that motivate me to comment
on the peace-discuss list. 1) I find the list interesting;
2) there's another expat down the road a couple thousand klicks
that still makes some effort to change things, so he encourages me;
3) the influence of the US on the global situation. Bernanke moves
his pen and a peasant in Guizhou moves in response. Spooky action
at a distance. Seems worthwhile trying to modify it a little.
*
On 07/15/13 22:05, "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" wrote:
I do feel lucky to be where I am right now.
Sometimes I do wonder why I should participate at all
any more in any USA issues.
*
I'd like to see Occupy! rejuvenated or revived or revisited.
Something that could be referred to as a Critical Mass has got to be
achieved. Some have called it getting to a Tipping Point.
Like-minded people have got to come together.
It needs to be better organized, better funded, and more
attractive to those with real influence in the society.
There needs to be planning and provision for the needs of
large groups people coming together. There needs to be
some security muscle to keep minimum order inside and prevent
disruptive elements from outside.
There should be a consensus agenda that resonates with what the
people are feeling in their hearts. It needs to draw enough
people who are tired enough of what is going down that they
are willing to do something to stop it. It should draw together
people from different aspects of the sociopolitical spectrum to
share their ideas, and some how be immune to the co-opting by
the money and influence peddling of the oligarchy and the MSM.
*
United States and its constitutive elements should be responsive and
responsible
to the people. Presently the political system operates primarily as a
well-entrenched oligarchy
protected by ballot access laws and various other props, chicanery and
shenanigans
that game the system for the benefit of a few. The oligarchy must be
evicted
by whatever means prove necessary to accomplish their overthrow,
preferably through
legal channels.
A general re-empowerment of the people to make their own choices, good,
bad, or indifferent.
Establish new institutions to truly help people not just be profit
centres.
Untangle bureaucracy and cut through red tape with the machete of
common sense.
Transparency in government to be the order of the day.
Stop those who prey upon the poor and unprivileged.
Stop vicious cycles that entrap the poor and the unlucky.
A pact against violence. The natural response is to use force. A
bloody revolution
is unlikely to achieve desirable goals. However there has to be
meaningful
resistance and that can only be gotten legitimately by working through
legitimate channels.
Ya need the police on your side so that they can't make you leave.
Release from the prisons those who have been imprisoned for many
non-violent crimes.
Replace the punitive incarceration system with a choice of
reparative/restorative justice.
Abolish ridiculous tort claims that do nothing for consumer protection
but
dramatically increase costs for the many at the benefit of a very few.
If ya don't know that coffee is hot...?
Cui bono? should be the litmus test of regulation.
Nader, et al. came up with a consensus agenda for national action in
2008 that
still looks pretty good to me, remarkably prescient in its present
applicability.
Some updating to the present situation is needed.
Foreign Policy: The Iraq War must end as quickly as possible with
removal of all our soldiers from the region. We must initiate the
return of our soldiers from around the world, including Korea, Japan,
Europe and the entire Middle East. We must cease the war propaganda,
threats of a blockade and plans for attacks on Iran, nor should we
re-ignite the cold war with Russia over Georgia. We must be willing to
talk to all countries and offer friendship and trade and travel to all
who are willing. We must take off the table the threat of a nuclear
first strike against all nations.
Privacy: We must protect the privacy and civil liberties of all persons
under US jurisdiction. We must repeal or radically change the Patriot
Act, the Military Commissions Act, and the FISA legislation. We must
reject the notion and practice of torture, eliminations of habeas
corpus, secret tribunals, and secret prisons. We must deny immunity for
corporations that spy willingly on the people for the benefit of the
government. We must reject the unitary presidency, the illegal use of
signing statements and excessive use of executive orders.
The National Debt: We believe that there should be no increase in the
national debt. The burden of debt placed on the next generation is
unjust and already threatening our economy and the value of our dollar.
We must pay our bills as we go along and not unfairly place this burden
on a future generation.
The Federal Reserve: We seek a thorough investigation, evaluation and
audit of the Federal Reserve System and its cozy relationships with the
banking, corporate, and other financial institutions. The arbitrary
power to create money and credit out of thin air behind closed doors
for the benefit of commercial interests must be ended. There should be
no taxpayer bailouts of corporations and no corporate subsidies.
Corporations should be aggressively prosecuted for their crimes and
frauds.
We support opening up the debates beyond the two parties and the
Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD), a private corporation
co-chaired by former chairmen of the Republican and Democratic Party.
It is time for our Presidential Debates to once again be hosted by a
truly non-partisan civic-minded association.
On 07/15/13 11:52, Karen Aram wrote:
Wayne
Ok, you have the info, in Beijing, lucky you, out of the fray.
People of substance rarely watch tv, certainly don't get their news
from it.
You're acurate, when it comes to critique on most counts, not all, but
you make assumptions about those who are attempting to change the
system locally.
Your delivery is rude, and insensitive to others. You enjoy that.
It leads me to question your intentions, you give the impression of
someone who doesn't want to see progress when you disparage and
discourage others.
The only real way any change can come about is for people to start on a
local level, and build up and out, and they are doing just that.
Maybe we're beyond hope, but should we pass our cynicism onto the young?
How about offering some solutions, suggestions as to what we should be
doing, but nicely.
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:19:58 +0800
From: ewj at pigsqq.org
To: karenaram at hotmail.com
CC: niloofar.peace at gmail.com; rachelstrm at gmail.com; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Organize!
I reside in Beijing presently.
I pretty much have the same access to info that you have but the
opinion shaping is not force fed to me as it would be if I
were in the USA.
I don't watch TV much. I got out of the TV habit some 40 years ago
but I am aware that there are people who do watch TV and have I dabbled
with it.
I have followed the incidents with Assange, Snowden, Manning, that guy
they
blew up his car in California cant think of his name right now and too
lazy to
look in up, the Tsarnev bros, etc., Zimmerman, etc.
The call goes out both far and near for - - -.
I think it is reprehensible that the USA has more people in jail than
any other
country in the world by any statistical measure.
Those of you who want "justice"
for Martin seem to love Big Sibling more than B.S. loves itself.
Jailing another person by the Over-dogs is Justice?
Justice?
Nay, Revenge.
A scapegoat to atone for your sorry and pathetic existences
and carry them off into the dessert. Cheesecake, please.
A capacitor to suck off the back EMF harmlessly to ground.
Kicking dogs is out-of-vogue. Hammer time for the carpenters.
I just tell it as I see it. Why should that piss you off?
Do you want to switch sides in this debate and see if I still piss you
off?
Is it me that pisses you or is it what I am saying? Or the way I say
it?
Which senseless killing is that your fearless leaders are going to stop?
The killing of babies by the frenetic Lady Macbeth harpies of abortion?
Hey, Pilate. Throw 'em yer towel.
The mass murders at the hand of the American Empire?
Those minorities shooting each other in Chicago?
How?
By disarming the people and leaving them completely
helpless against those who make merchandise of them day and night?
Is Occupy! working for the 1%?
Seriously...
Is it?
On 07/15/13 9:29, Karen Aram wrote:
Nilofar, I second that, well said. What so many
are
thinking.
I just came from the "protest/gathering in Champaign", it was a
discussion with impressive speakers. The leaders know exactly what to
do to prevent the senseless killings in the future, They are impressive
folks. They advised us to "get involved with the community, get on one
of the many Boards or Councils, and become politically active." That is
the only way to counteract the power of ALEC and the NRA. In the
meantime they will warn their children how to keep a low profile so as
not to be targeted if such a thing is possible, how sad, so much for
childhood.
Wayne you are in Dalian? Even in Shanghai one has limited access to
information and facts of such happenings in the US. Your attempt to
irritate/piss people off is effective. Your attempts to prevent them
from proceeding in their goals to achieve progress are not.
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 08:50:51 +0800
From: ewj at pigsqq.org
To: niloofar.peace at gmail.com
CC: karenaram at hotmail.com; rachelstrm at gmail.com; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net;
peace at anti-war.net
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Organize!
Absolutely Zimmerman was functioning as a sort of vigilante
doing a community watch. I would agree that this sort of
community patrolling by civilian is a variety of vigilante-ism
and is bound to lead ultimately to conflict between the watcher
and those watched. The community watcher has all of the
responsibility of a cop but not the authority of one.
Vigilantes like Zimmerman are not subject to the rules that
may sometimes restrain the police. I would not count on those rules
in Florida. One of my friends a white guy got the literal piss beat out
of him by a Florida cop. He was profiled by his out-of-state
license plate. The only thing for him to do was to get his ass
the hell out of Florida and tend his bruises.
Profiling is applied epidemiology, a narrowing of the use of resources.
Similar knowledge about rats stopped the black plague.
(Now, that IS an unfortunate analogy!)
Does this sort of talk stress you out?
Go to the root cause.
Profiling is an inevitable part of surveillance.
Who among us likes surveillance?
Where there is a perceived threat there is bound
to be surveillance. In applied epidemiology it is
sometimes called HACCP (hazard analysis/critical control point).
Since the George Zimmermen and the Deputy Dawgs of
the world do not stop and cavity search every person,
there is profiling to establish probable cause.
Zimmerman made a Terry Stop. Do we like Terry Stops?
Look at her. She's groovy. Yeah. Check out that
spade. He's groovy. Yeah all spades are groovy.
Look at that. She's not groovy. Uh huh.
Check out her body paint.
An oldie. Faded San Franscisco art nouveau.
Check out her stash. Aspirin.
Send her in.
*
>From my perspective, y'all are pursuing George because he
is one of many white carpenters in an perceived army of Zimmerpersons.
Easy pickin's. Low hanging fruit for social reformers.
>From my perspective, Martin and Zimmerman (good Mennonite names,
eh?)
are
both part of the 99%. Zimmerman is part of the 99%. What social good
is
there if Occupy! pursues the 99%? Zimmerman sure 'nuf ain't part of
the
1%, now is he?
Go ahead and lynch Zimmerman. He's one of y'all.
Not because he is white or black or a rat or a flea or
Yersinia pestis.
The challenge for OCCUPY! (as I see it) is to see the man
behind the curtain and go after him.
Some of y'all seem intent on joining the media circus.
Enjoy your bread (or is it 'crackers'?)
they supply you, but surely there
has got to be something better and more useful.
*
You say vigilante as if it is a bad thing.
OCCUPY! is a vigilante organization if it is anything at all.
What?
On 07/15/13 6:56, Niloofar Shambayati wrote:
Zimmerman is a vigilante and nothing else.
His
suspicion was based on making assumptions based on a bigoted racial
profiling that puts NYPD to shame, which in turn easily led to
murdering Trayvon. Negative profiling directly leads to either
dehumanizing the other or taking their individuality away from them. In
either case, you see one mass of the same thing, the way Nazis
portrayed the Jews, the way most Israeli Jews view the Palestinians,
and the way our troops commit horrible acts of violence against Afghans
and Iraqis. Thus for a hateful Zimmerman, Trayvon was just a profile, a
microscopic part of the mass of "good-for--nothing, dangerous young
black men." The vegetarian, animal-rights woman, who I am, uses the
same logic, when encountering a fly or a mosquito that bothers me and
justifies its killing.
The people who profile Trayvon's parents as
"blood-thirsty/greedy" black people, are no better than Zimmerman
Niloofar
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:31 AM,
"E.
Wayne
Johnson 朱稳森" <ewj at pigsqq.org>
wrote:
The Martin/Zimmerman incident is not like the
Champaign Police shootings of young black men.
Zimmerman may be an asshole or not. I am not sure.
Most but not all cops and wannabee cops are
indeed quasi-assholes. Not all.
But clearly Zimmerman was attacked, and on that basis he
has been set free, because of the self-defense argument.
The cause of the dispute betwen Martin and Zimmerman
becomes irrelevant when Zimmerman is attacked.
It's not like Zimmerman just pulled out his gun and
Oba-nam Style executed him because he was wearing a hoodie.
The law permits people to have encounters and disagreement.
When it erupts into physical violence particularly life-threatening
violence, then a line is crossed. The situation was
examined very clearly.
Justice my ass.
It's not justice that they are crying for.
It's blood.
They want an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
They want blood for bloodshed.
Well, actually what they want is Money.
But since there isn't any money available,
they'll settle for a few pints of blood,
and several ounces of testicular flesh if that
becomes available.
It is really a disgusting distraction for a noble movement
like Occupy! to get down and grub for cooties
with the blood-lust crowd.
On 07/14/13 22:02, Karen Aram wrote:
Rachel
After today's AWARE meeting at 5:00, I will be attending the protest,
bringing a neighbor as well.
Trayvon Marvin represents the many young black men from Emmet Till,
Jimmie Lee Jackson, Robert Hall etc., etc. murdered because of their
race, with the perpetrators so obviously being acquitted by unjust laws
and or decisions.
Karen Aram
From: rachelstrm at gmail.com
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 03:51:39 -0500
To: sdas-current at googlegroups.com;
sdas-list at googlegroups.com;
occupyCU at lists.chambana.net;
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net;
peace at anti-war.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Organize!
Hey
folks---If anyone has heard of another demo being planned, I'm happy to
send notices out, cancel this one, and redirect people there. I've
contacted a number of African-American led organizations in town and
can't seem to tell if something is already in the works. Either way,
I'm happy to help try and get the word out and then redirect if need be.
Okay,
here's
what
I
got
to
start. https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create
Please
forward
widely.
No
Justice, No Peace x Protest the
Verdict
Sunday,
July
14th,
2013 |
6pm-8pm
Douglass
Park
| 512
E. Grove
St. Champaign
"George
Zimmerman,
the
neighborhood
watch
volunteer
who fatally shot Trayvon
Martin, an unarmed black teenager, igniting a national debate on racial
profiling and civil rights, was found not guilty late Saturday night of
second-degree murder." We
will
stand
together
in
Champaign-Urbana
to demand accountability, to
stand against racial injustice, and to protest the verdict that proved the
injustice
of
the
system. We
stand
with
Trayvon’s
family
and
we know that we are called to act---to
fight for civil rights and for the removal of Stand
Your
Ground
laws
in
every
state, and we will not rest until racial
profiling in all its forms is outlawed. Today
we
mourn,
but
tomorrow
we
organize. #blacklivesmatter
Bring your friends, your family, your children, your neighbors. We
stand together as a community--all of us. Art, protest signs, candles,
and messages of outrage/hope/love/solidarity
are
encouraged.
Share on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create
On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Rachel
Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com>
wrote:
I
think we need an emergency demonstration tomorrow in response to the
Zimmerman verdict to show that Urbana community members/activists/folks
in solidarity do not stand for this outrageous demonstration of
injustice.
Can
we plan to meet somewhere very public tomorrow (Sunday) at 6pm-ish?
WHERE?
Rachel
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
--
Niloofar
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
_______________________________________________
Peace-discuss mailing list
Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/attachments/20130715/ba89c149/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list