[Peace-discuss] bmaz bs

Tue Jul 16 14:26:42 UTC 2013

I have some interaction with the author of "The Uncomfortable Truth" article circulated by CGE on this list.

@Paul Mueth: Frankly, I could care less what some guy on “Here and Now” says. I do this for a living, I have for a very long time, I have read and watched most everything in this case (and I very much doubt that person, whoever it is, has) and I will stand by my opinions and analysis. And, AGAIN, my opinion and analysis are based on the actual evidence and actual jury instructions. -
 See more at: http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/07/11/uncomfortable-truth-the-state-of-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-prosecution/#comment-573393

RE empty wheel discourse.The interviewee on NPR does it ( da law) for a living too. Perhaps others would like to ck it.

"The defense merely had to establish that there was a perception of risk, of bodily harm, on the part of Mr. Zimmerman for these instructions to be resonant on the part of jurors,” jury consultant Doug Keene told Here & Now. “Under the old law, you were obliged to escape the situation without use of deadly force. Under the new law, you don’t need to establish that.”
http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/07/15/stand-ground-laws

Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!

On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Paul Mueth <paulmueth at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The lawyer in the Here & Now interview disagrees entirely with your diminishment of the role of the range of "legal lethal defense"
> In Florida the SYG idiocy is perhaps polled as approved by nearly
> 2/3!      Must be in the water?!
> 
> PS.  BTW not a general endorsement of H& N.
> Based in bean town and never had neighbor Noam from Newton on!!)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!
> 
> On Jul 15, 2013, at 3:00 PM, "C. G. Estabrook" <cge at shout.net> wrote:
> 
>> The written instructions to the jury (released after the note below was written) used the phrase, but the law wasn't part of the defense:
>> 
>> "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
>> 
>> <reason.com> writes, "That language is part of the standard jury instruction [3.6(f)] in cases where the defendant claims his use of deadly force was justified. But it is hard to see how it applies to the facts of this case, since Zimmerman claimed he was unable to retreat and therefore did not base his defense on the right to stand your ground. The fact that a legal provision was mentioned in the instructions does not necessarily mean it was relevant in reaching a verdict. For example, the instructions also mentioned accidental killings and attacks on dwellings, neither of which applies to the circumstances of the encounter between Zimmerman and Martin."  
>> 
>> --CGE
>> 
>> On Jul 15, 2013, at 1:09 PM, Paul Mueth <paulmueth at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> This is wrong,
>>>  "stand your ground" was referred to in instructions to the jury, ck Dem Now today. 
>>> It may be standard op in FL, I guess particularly when the accused prep is the son of a judge, 
>>> 
>>> There should be an argument about whether Z used the word "coon" on
>>> The 911 call or not.
>>> Chew on this for a while,
>>> Everything is fine in FL
>>> http://mobile.alternet.org/alternet/#!/entry/black-woman-gets-20-years-for-firing-shot-at-wall,51b7609bda27f5d9d0dd3c29
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!
>>> 
>>> On Jul 14, 2013, at 11:16 AM, "C. G. Estabrook" <cge at shout.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> '...State of Florida v. Zimmerman is a straight up traditional self defense case. It has never been pled as a Stand Your Ground defense case, irrespective of all the press coverage, attention and attribution to Stand Your Ground. It’s never been Stand Your Ground, and certainly is not now that the evidence is all in on the trial record. It is a straight self defense justification defense, one that would be pretty much the same under the law of any state in the union including that which you are in, and that I am in, now (so don’t blame “Florida law”)...'
>>>> 
>>>> - See more at: http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/07/11/uncomfortable-truth-the-state-of-evidence-in-the-george-zimmerman-prosecution/#sthash.j89tcZbp.dpuf
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 14, 2013, at 10:31 AM, "E. Wayne Johnson 朱稳森" <ewj at pigsqq.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The Martin/Zimmerman incident is not like the 
>>>>> Champaign Police shootings of young black men.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Zimmerman may be an asshole or not.  I am not sure.
>>>>> Most but not all cops and wannabee cops are 
>>>>> indeed quasi-assholes.  Not all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But clearly Zimmerman was attacked, and on that basis he 
>>>>> has been set free, because of the self-defense argument.
>>>>> The cause of the dispute betwen Martin and Zimmerman
>>>>> becomes irrelevant when Zimmerman is attacked.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's not like Zimmerman just pulled out his gun and 
>>>>> Oba-nam Style executed him because he was wearing a hoodie.
>>>>> The law permits people to have encounters and disagreement.
>>>>> When it erupts into physical violence particularly life-threatening
>>>>> violence, then a line is crossed.  The situation was
>>>>> examined very clearly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Justice my ass.
>>>>> It's not justice that they are crying for.  
>>>>> It's blood.
>>>>> They want an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
>>>>> They want blood for bloodshed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, actually what they want is Money.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But since there isn't any money available,
>>>>> they'll settle for a few pints of blood,
>>>>> and several ounces of testicular flesh if that
>>>>> becomes available.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It is really a disgusting distraction for a noble movement
>>>>> like Occupy! to get down and grub for cooties
>>>>> with the blood-lust crowd.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 07/14/13 22:02, Karen Aram wrote:
>>>>>> Rachel
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> After today's AWARE meeting at 5:00, I will be attending the protest, bringing a neighbor as well. 
>>>>>> Trayvon Marvin represents the many young black men from Emmet Till, Jimmie Lee Jackson, Robert Hall etc., etc. murdered because of their race, with the perpetrators so obviously being acquitted by unjust laws and or decisions.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Karen Aram
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: rachelstrm at gmail.com
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 03:51:39 -0500
>>>>>> To: sdas-current at googlegroups.com; sdas-list at googlegroups.com; occupyCU at lists.chambana.net; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; peace at anti-war.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Organize!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hey folks---If anyone has heard of another demo being planned, I'm happy to send notices out, cancel this one, and redirect people there. I've contacted a number of African-American led organizations in town and can't seem to tell if something is already in the works. Either way, I'm happy to help try and get the word out and then redirect if need be.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Okay, here's what I got to start. https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please forward widely. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No Justice, No Peace x Protest the Verdict
>>>>>> Sunday, July 14th, 2013 | 6pm-8pm
>>>>>> Douglass Park | 512 E. Grove St. Champaign
>>>>>> "George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who fatally shot Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, igniting a national debate on racial profiling and civil rights, was found not guilty late Saturday night of second-degree murder." We will stand together in Champaign-Urbana to demand accountability, to stand against racial injustice, and to protest the verdict that proved the injustice of the system. We stand with Trayvon’s family and we know that we are called to act---to fight for civil rights and for the removal of Stand Your Ground laws in every state, and we will not rest until racial profiling in all its forms is outlawed. Today we mourn, but tomorrow we organize. #blacklivesmatter
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Bring your friends, your family, your children, your neighbors. We stand together as a community--all of us. Art, protest signs, candles, and messages of outrage/hope/love/solidarity are encouraged. 
>>>>>> Share on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/206857249471575/?context=create
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 2:36 AM, Rachel Storm <rachelstrm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I think we need an emergency demonstration tomorrow in response to the Zimmerman verdict to show that Urbana community members/activists/folks in solidarity do not stand for this outrageous demonstration of injustice.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Can we plan to meet somewhere very public tomorrow (Sunday) at 6pm-ish?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WHERE?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Rachel
>>>> 
>>>> 
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