[Peace-discuss] More differential application of SYG

[Laurie Solomon]

Thanks for the clarification.

-----Original Message----- 
From: C. G. Estabrook
Sent: July 18, 2013 9:15 AM
To: Laurie Solomon
Cc: Peace-discuss List ; ocCUpy
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] More differential application of SYG

'This' refers to the jury system.

On Jul 18, 2013, at 12:23 AM, Laurie Solomon <ls1000 at live.com> wrote:

>
>   The point is almost a truism and the same can be said for a non-jury 
> system although the benefits may not always be identical; but I do fail to 
> see why one has to invoke or quote William Kunstler to make the point. 
> His statement make the point in a highly obtuse way when just saying "that 
> the jury system retains values that occasionally benefit even enemies of 
> the state" is a much more pointed and clearer articulation of the point.
>
> As for your statement, "For an account of how this and other hard-won 
> peoples' victories are being destroyed in the 21st c. by the minions of 
> the 1%, see Peter Linebaugh, "The Magna Carta Manifesto: Liberties and 
> Commons for All" (Cal UP 2008),"  I have no idea what the reference of the 
> "this" in "how this and other hard-won peoples' victories...." is.  Does 
> it refer to "the jury system," "the retained values," "the occasional 
> benefits it furnishes to even enemies of the state," all of the above, or 
> some combination of the above?  Or are you saying that this publication 
> gives an account of how " the jury system retains values that occasionally 
> benefit even enemies of the state" is a hard won people's victory which is 
> being destroyed by the minions of the 1%.
>
> -----Original Message----- From: C. G. Estabrook
> Sent: July 17, 2013 9:22 PM
> To: Laurie Solomon
> Cc: Peace-discuss List ; ocCUpy
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] More differential application of SYG
>
> The point is that the jury system retains values that occasionally benefit 
> even enemies of the state.
>
> For an account of how this and other hard-won peoples' victories are being 
> destroyed in the 21st c. by the minions of the 1%, see Peter Linebaugh, 
> "The Magna Carta Manifesto: Liberties and Commons for All" (Cal UP 2008).
>
> And in this campaign Neoliberalism seems sometimes to be aided by 
> well-meaning Liberals.
>
>
> On Jul 17, 2013, at 11:33 AM, Laurie Solomon <ls1000 at live.com> wrote:
>
>> I find it interesting, telling, and disappointing that you feel little or 
>> no restraint in falling back on the use of racist terms, such as”Chink,” 
>> and terms colored by a biased and emotion-invoking spin, e.g., the 
>> “injustice” system when you could just as easily engaged in a rational 
>> civil discussion without having employing those tactics.   I also find 
>> that many of your posts of recent on this and other topics have tended to 
>> become very disjointed and elliptical, making them hard to follow and 
>> understand.  I attribute some of this to your use of your iPhone and in 
>> part to your attempt to multi-task in which you are giving little 
>> attention to any of the tasks you are performing but feel compelled to 
>> respond even if you cannot give the time to any detail.
>>
>> While I am not a big fan of CGE, I am going to give him the benefit of 
>> the doubt here and assume that he was not focusing on invoking William 
>> Kunstler as much as invoking the Counterpunch article that he supplied a 
>> link to which does invoke Kunstler’s remark as an occasion for 
>> articulating the points of the article.  Personally, I fail to see what 
>> Kunstler’s comments or positions (actual or presumptively attributed to 
>> him) on the jury system or ALEC orchestrated reforms have to do with 
>> anything.  To do what a lot of people – including myself – seem to be 
>> doing these days, I will ask a counterfactual question:  What if Kunstler 
>> has said that he had no opposition to  and even supported the ALEC 
>> orchestration of reforms of the judicial system and SYG; how would that 
>> change anything including your position?  I would suggest that it would 
>> not change anything and even suggest that the cognitive dissonance that 
>> this would create would result in his comments being dismissed as 
>> irrelevant, senile, or misinformed.  It is for that reason that I think 
>> invoking Kunstler or his comments is a distracting irrelevancy and 
>> totally unnecessary.
>>
>> From: Paul Mueth
>> Sent: July 17, 2013 6:15 AM
>> To: Peace-discuss List
>> Cc: ocCUpy
>> Subject: [Peace-discuss] More differential application of SYG
>>
>> The injustice system is rigged, another case in point
>>
>> http://mobile.thegrio.com/thegrio/#!/entry/71yearold-black-man-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-jury-rejects-stand,5124f9c5d7fc7b56703b5d2f
>>
>> The Alternet article I circulated at the beginning of this string has the 
>> stats on how the Florida SYG is applied depending on the race of the 
>> stander.
>>
>> William Kunstler invoked by CGE on the jury system would be fundamentally
>> opposed, I'm sure, to the ALEC orchestrated "reforms" of the judicial 
>> system, of which SYG is only one. And I guess perhaps the most deadly, at 
>> least in terms of individuals.
>>
>>
>> (Their tort reforms effectively releasing big Pharma further from 
>> liability could possibly cause more damage in the long run, societally. . 
>> . )
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 3GS, It doesn't chat!
>>>
>
>
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