[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] Online activism...

Thu Jul 25 23:13:38 UTC 2013

You know, a little history here might not hurt.

The core ideas of Holocaust denial started to coalesce in the 1970s among neo-Nazis. One of the key early documents was a pamphlet called "Did Six Million Really Die?" It argued that, among other things, the gas chambers of Auschwitz were just Jew propaganda, and Hitler was actually a pretty nice guy.

It was written in the by the blackshirt Richard Verrall of the British neo-Fascist party National Front, a jackboot organization through and through. (Those of you old enough might remember this lyric about the fascist salute: "Billy's joined the National Front / He always was a little runt / He's got his hand in the air with the other ----- / You've got to humanize yourself.")

It was published in 1974 by a guy named Ernst Zündel, who made a good chunk of cash printing German-language neo-Nazi materials and smuggling them from Canada into his native Germany. Canada finally got sick of him and threw him out.

But he found a new home, apparently, on Stephen's website.

That is, it's the very same Ernst Zündel who's in one of the videos our "anti-racist" friend Stephen posted on the very site he's pushing here and David Johnson is apparently defending.

These are the ideas you're defending, David and Stephen. Now, of course, Holocaust deniers don't blame "Judeobolshevism" the way they did back in the seventies. Instead, they tell the very same lies but use the word "Zionists" instead, hoping deeply credulous people will swallow the Jewbait meal and ask for more. The basic antisemitic lies at the core of it, however, remain the same: the Jews/Judeobolshevists/Zionists/euphemism-du-jour pretty much made up the Holocaust, the dirty bastards. 

Do you *intend* to defend neo-Nazi ideology from neo-Nazi publishers, or do you simply not know that you *are* defending neo-Nazi ideology from neo-Nazi publishers?

And, knowing that you are, wittingly or unwittingly, defending neo-Nazi ideology in what's supposed to be a "peace-discuss" list, is there any reason any subscriber to this list who's genuinely anti-racist should not protest?

If you want to criticize Israel or Zionism, find a way to do it that keeps your hand out of the neo-Nazi cookie jar.

@%<

On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:39 PM, David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> wrote:

> I have once again removed Occupy CU from the reply list, as it is not a discussion list. 
> 
> Same question to you as Stephen. Do you think the videos he posted are right when they say the Jews made up all that stuff about the gas chambers at the death camps?
> 
> If not, do you believe that posting egregious antisemitic lies like that constitutes anti racism?
> 
> @%<
> 
> On Jul 25, 2013, at 5:10 PM, "David Johnson" <dlj725 at hughes.net> wrote:
> 
>> Norman Finkelstein documents the phenomena that Stephen describes, in his book ; " The Holacaust Industry " !
>> FYI - Norman Finkelstein is Jewish. His parents BARELY survived the Nazi Fascist Auchewitz death camp as late teenagers / young adults. They were anti-Nazi Resistance fighters in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. Their parents ( Norman's grandparents, were not so lucky ). Norman's parent's were LEFT-WING anti-Zionists, hence anti-racist Jews.
>> The fairytale about the Zionists is that they organized the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, when in fact, they  COLLABORATED with the Nazis in order to allow rich Bourgoise Jews escape Nazi occupied territory, at the expense and peril of course of Working class Jews.
>> This is the REAL history of the racist neo-liberal war-mongering Israeli Zionists.
>> David Gehrig it appears from his previous postings is that he is an " Israel Uber Alles " racist Zionist appologist, and attempts to use the label of " anti-semiticsm " against anyone who opposes the neo-liberal corporate AIPAC right-wing pro-war  Zionist agenda !
>> Mr. Gehrig, if you feel that I am unfair and / or inaccurate in my analysis, we can have a PUBLIC conversation / debate about it !
>> You pick the ; date, time, and place, and I will be there !
>>  
>> BTW. My heritage is Pagen Wolfetone Irish and German Jewish.
>> My Labor Activist Grandmother's maiden name was " KRAFT ", which they changed from the original " Kraftstein ".
>> My wife is a German National who has lived in the U.S. since 1971. Her heritage is Polish Working class Jew ( Mothers side ) and German / Polish Gypsy ( father's side ).
>> My wife's father was in the Polish Army reserves and left Poland not until Aug. of 1946. My wife was born in Stuttgart in 1954.
>> I include this info so that everyone knows ( who doesn't know me ) what my MOTIVES are.
>>  
>> You want to debate, lets Tango !
>> In the meantime, quit trolling this list and criticizing unless you are willing to confirm that you are anti-war and anti-Zionist Racist !
>> Otherwise you have no reason to be on this list !
>>  
>> Call me and talk to me if you wish, if you feel that I am inaccurate in my analysis of your motives.
>> I will admit if I am wrong !
>> Will You ?
>>  
>> David Johnson
>> 217-721-0583
>>  
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Stephen Francis
>> To: David Gehrig
>> Cc: Peace-discuss List ; ocCUpy
>> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 1:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Online activism...
>> 
>> It can easily be proven that Zionist's murdered 3000 people on 9/11.  Thirty percent of the world's population is convinced of this.  The tide is turning.  I'm not antisemitic.  I'm anti Zionist. and also not a holocaust denier, but a holocaust revisionist.  The world also is waking up to the fact that the Zionists have used the holocaust to advance their politically and financial ends like no others in the history of the world.  Their have been countless genocides and only the Zionists use for gain.... Period.
>> 
>> From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>> To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> 
>> Cc: ocCUpy <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>; Peace-discuss List <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> 
>> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2013 11:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Online activism...
>> 
>> I see your News Follow-Up site still says that "the Holocaust is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind" and still links to videos from the world's leading Holocaust deniers.
>> 
>> Which is to say, you still have an overtly antisemitic site. 
>> 
>> @%<
>> 
>> On Jul 25, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all.  This post concerns the issue of whether spending a lot of time posting things on Facebook or local discussion lists is a productive thing to do in the world of social justice and activism.
>>> Yesterday (July 24th)a staffer at the Facebook page 'Prepare to Take America Back' made a link to a page of my website NewsFollowUp.com http://www.newsfollowup.com/obama_body_count_obama_death_list_re-election_cia_gay.htm concerning      a list that is known as the Obama Body Count...etc.  The link garnered 121 shares and 174 likes in just a few hours (see http://www.newsfollowup.com/facebook.html.)  This is quite difficult to do as you all know on Facebook.  Prepare to Take America Back is a right wing conservative page that I actually don't like, but at this point any credible political attack from either side of the isle on Obama is needed.  As Jimmy Carter recently put it: "We know longer have a functioning democracy". Anyway, Prepare to Take America Back Facebook has about 120,000 likes and 216,000 people 'talking about this'.  This is nationally substantial.  It is very encouraging to me that my work is seen by people in these numbers. 
>>> NewsFollowUp.com http://www.newsfollowup.com/index.html enjoys about 50,000 to 100,000 page views per month and about 10% of  NFU viewers spend almost 600 hours per month on the site..  But this is nothing compared to the 20 million or so per month that Fox News has.  ...but...  from what I can tell, the average Facebook post gets one or two likes/shares per post if any at all.  I (Facebook name Occupy Occupy) have about 4700 Facebook friends and 516 people who 'follow' me and occasionally my posts will get shared a dozen times or so but usually not and many times no shares or likes.  Even someone like the nationally known activist Cindy Sheehan only has a couple of dozen shares and maybe 50-100 likes each on her posts.  My point here is that ... is it worth it to be spending hours and hours online posting remarks that only a few people see?  I think yes is the answer, but only in the context of you being in a sea of protesters doing the same thing.  Individually it is pretty pathetic, but social media on a world wide basis has made a huge difference... ie Egypt, Tunisia...etc.
>>> As you can see from the front page of http://www.newsfollowup.com/index.html my focus is on 9/11 Truth.  I just believe that this is the most important issue in modern times.  It is the 'head of the snake'.  There is mountains of proof that the Cheneys/Bushes/Zionists of the world murdered 3000 people on 9/11 which has ushered in the Patriot Act/NSA/TSA... etc.  2000 engineers and architects of the website http://www.ae911truth.org/ Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth professional prove that 3 WTC towers were demolished with explosives.  We need to put these people in jail.  Working on anything else is important but doesn't threaten them in any way.... they just keep on doing what they do.
>>> Anyway, I'm done.  Thanks for listening.
>>> Steve Francis
>>> NewsFollowUp.com
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>>> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> 
>> 
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