[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 4th of July - AWARE float (or sink?)

Tue Jun 18 02:21:53 UTC 2013

Carl

I wish I was as optimistic as you, I sincerely do. I believe I read something quite recently that you posted by Noam Chomsky which supports my pessimism regarding changing things for the better, unless I misunderstood his message. 

I must note that a meeting I attended tonight with Stuart and Karen and a group of bipartiisan young people concerned with the 4th amendment, has rekindled my faith in humanity.  An impressive group of students and non students, with little experience as activists, but an earnest desire "to do something".

In relation to what AWARE is doing on the 4th, I'm sure Stuart will update everyone, but until then:  It was decided we'd carry signs, which we will construct on the 29th, with another group. Again, Stuart has the details regarding time and place, etc. Those of us who will be attending are to bring some ideas for slogans. Mr. Johnson has now submitted two, as have you. If you have any more they would be welcome.

Karen Aram

Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 06:38:30 +0800
From: ewj at pigsqq.org
To: karenaram at hotmail.com
CC: carl at newsfromneptune.com; r-szoke at illinois.edu; peace-discuss at anti-war.net; thenewmoon37 at yahoo.com; occupycu at lists.chambana.net; m-taber at illinois.edu
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 4th of July - AWARE float (or sink?)

B.O. Stinks.

On 06/17/13 23:59, Karen Aram wrote:

  Carl

Nope, that was a good one. It made the point, it addressed him and
evidently discouraged him from running for re-election, or so they
say.  

We're not in DC, what do you suggest for Champaign, Il, that rymes with
"Obama"?

  > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] 4th of July - AWARE
float (or sink?)

> From: carl at newsfromneptune.com

> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 08:58:20 -0500

> CC: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; thenewmoon37 at yahoo.com;
m-taber at illinois.edu; occupycu at lists.chambana.net; r-szoke at illinois.edu

> To: karenaram at hotmail.com

> 

> Karen--

> 

> On that basis, would you say that the use of the anti-Veitnam War
chant,

> 

> "Hey, hey, LBJ / How many kids did you kill today?"

> 

> was a mistake, forty-five years ago?

> 

> It seems to me, on the contrary, that it pointed out to a yet
unknowing world, just what the then US president was presiding over.

> 

> --CGE 

> 

> 

> On Jun 17, 2013, at 7:24 AM, Karen Aram
<karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 

> > Carl

> > 

> > I agree with you that there is no need to remove Obama's name
from the current US Wars. We call on "him" to close Guantanamo, we sign
petitions to him to stop the wars and killings, yes, he has final say.
However I do believe as I did in the 60's & 70's that the signs and
statements making jest or villianizing individuals is trivializing what
is a joint effort in respect to US government foreign policy, precisely
because we don't have a King. My years in Thailand have not made me
fearful of lese majeste in the US. 

> > I in no way wish to "censor", only look at the goals AWARE is
attempting to achieve. 

> > I admire and respect what you have been doing as an
individual and as a group.

> > 

> > Karen Aram 

> > 

> > 

> > 

> > > Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] 4th of July - AWARE float (or
sink?)

> > > From: carl at newsfromneptune.com

> > > Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 19:58:57 -0500

> > > CC: r-szoke at illinois.edu; rohnkoester at gmail.com;
peace-discuss at anti-war.net; thenewmoon37 at yahoo.com;
m-taber at illinois.edu;occupycu at lists.chambana.net

> > > To: karenaram at hotmail.com

> > > 

> > > I'm constantly surprised by the tendency of opponents of
today's US war to remove Obama's name from it. 

> > > 

> > > Nothing similar occurred in regard to Reagan's wars of
the 1980s, or Nixon's of the 1970s (or Germany's of the 1940s). 

> > > 

> > > I'm coming to think that we're dealing with what the
psychoanalysts call "identification with the aggressor" - what abused
spouses or children apparently sometimes do, in excusing the crimes of
the abusers. ("He didn't really want to do it"/ "He's promised he'll do
better"/etc. - cf. the reactions to Obama's National Defense University
speech.)

> > > 

> > > We're so horrified by all those dead children lying on
hillsides in Pakistan, and Obama's relentless expansion of a war that
he was clearly elected to end, that we make up an explanation in which
things are not as bad as they clearly are. 

> > > 

> > > But not telling the truth is not the way to build
opposition to the administration's murderous policies. 

> > > 

> > > --CGE

> > > 

> > > 

> > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 4:21 PM, Karen Aram
<karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > 

> > > > Can we focus on the anti-war and the
unconstitutionality of it all, without naming individuals?

> > > > I know its frustrating that so many democrats still
have their head in the sands, blaming all our ills on the republicans,
but targeting Obama, appears to many as teaparty rhetoric, thus in the
name of winning hearts and minds can we just refer to the US Govt. in
general?

> > > > I'm heading over to the White Horse Inn for the
meeting, on the assumption that there will be a meeting.

> > > > 

> > > > > Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] 4th of July - AWARE
float (or sink?)

> > > > > From: carl at newsfromneptune.com

> > > > > Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 15:32:59 -0500

> > > > > CC: rohnkoester at gmail.com;
karenaram at hotmail.com; peace-discuss at anti-war.net;
thenewmoon37 at yahoo.com; m-taber at illinois.edu;occupycu at lists.chambana.net

> > > > > To: r-szoke at illinois.edu

> > > > > 

> > > > > Obama has chosen to prosecute a widening war
at least as viciously (and unconstitutionally) as his predecessor - or
as Nixon in SE Asia. 

> > > > > 

> > > > > How can we exculpate him and still say we
oppose the war? No one made him kill all those people.

> > > > > 

> > > > > --CGE

> > > > > 

> > > > > 

> > > > > "Let me tell you what I felt - and maybe some
of the rest of you felt - when I saw the pictures of the Bush library
dedication. There was a group of men standing there, former presidents,
the ones that are alive. Every one of them is a major criminal. A major
criminal. Obama is continuing the grand tradition ― that shouldn’t be a
great surprise. 

> > > > > 

> > > > > "The sentence that came to my mind at the time
is from Thomas Jefferson, who said, 'I tremble for my country when I
think that God is just, and some day will bring us to his judgment.'"
[Noam Chomsky]

> > > > > 

> > > > > 

> > > > > 

> > > > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 1:17 PM, "Szoke, Ronald
Duane" <r-szoke at illinois.edu> wrote:

> > > > > 

> > > > > > Wish there were some way to relate our
war & racism concerns more directly to the parade's official
themes. I'll walk for whatever theme or slogan is chosen, but hoping it
will not be merely the hundredth or thousandth instance of pounding on
the demon Obama. Will probably be at Bloomsday event today around time
of the AWARE meeting.

> > > > > > 

> > > > > > -- Ron 

> > > > > 

> > > 

> > _______________________________________________

> > Peace-discuss mailing list

> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net

> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss

> 

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