[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library

Wed Sep 18 03:20:37 UTC 2013

I'm passing Jim's response to David Gehrig on to the group(s)...
and would like to reiterate my enthusiastic support for James Fetzer. I have much to learn from him.  He and I are on the same page every issue that I can think of.
I again take exception to remarks like the one below:
"Steve Francis, by his selection of Jim Fetzer and Kevin Barrett, has made it clear that he has aligned himself with the Jew-hating wing of trooferdom."

I reiterate my support for the following JEWISH organizations.
NKUSA, JewsNotZionists, JewsAgainstZion,  JewsAgainstZionism, International Jewish AntiZionist Network, American Jews Solidarity Against Zionism, Rabbis Against Zionism, IsraelVersusJudaism.  These people created their organizations for a specific reason of which they are highly dedicated. 

See Jim's response below:

________________________________
 From: James Fetzer <jfetzer at d.umn.edu>
To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library

Steve, 

Kindly post this as my response to the completely unwarranted claims made by: 
David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> appears to be the epitome of arrogance 
driven by ignorance. In his completely gratuitous dismissal of my positions, which 
he supports exclusively by a very odd quote taken out of context.  Does he not 
know that the figure 6,000,000 was being bandied about as early as 1890 and has 
'a theological or ideological origin.  It has nothing to do with the history of WWII, 
including of course the Holocaust, which he may not realized would not take place 
for another 40 or 50 years.  But spare me more about the Holocaust!

I have spelled out my position on a very wide range of complex and controversial 
subjects, about which it appears he knows nothing at all.  If he would like to show 
me wrong, THEN SHOW ME WRONG.  Pick the subject on which he thinks I am 
most likely to be wrong.  Explain my position and why I hold it, then spell out what 
he thinks I have wrong and why.  I find it completely insulting to everyone whom he 
addresses that he can make pompous pronouncements with no proof! 

Here is a thumbnail sketch of my positions on issues that have arisen on the thread: 

9/11 was not committed by 19 Islamic terrorists who hijacked four commercial airliners and outfoxed the most sophisticated air-defense system in the world;
the Wellstone plane crash was not an accident, as the NTSB reported, but was very carefully contrived for the GOP to take control of the Senate and launch wars;
the Holocaust has been exaggerated for political reasons, including war crimes by the allies in the form of collective punishment of German cities, which they needed to conceal;
JFK was hit four times--in the throat from in front, in the back from behind, and twice in the head (from behind and from the right-front)--where Lee Oswald didn't do it;
the moon landing was easier to pull off than most realize, as the film, "Capricorn I", releals, where Stanly Kubrick seems to have faked the landings for the government;
the Boston bombing was an obvious fraud, where the Craft International perps had been outed by the alternative press already the evening of the event itself; and,
the Sandy Hook event was staged to promote gun control, which fell short but not for a lack of trying.  
Check out http://www.veteranstoday.com/author/fetzer/ for my and other's articles about them. 
If anyone thinks I am wrong about any of this, just take a look at the evidence and tell me what I have wrong and how you know, so I can take your arguments into account.  
Most of us don't have the luxury or the background or the ability to take this on, but I am a professional scholar who has been devoting himself to their study since my retirement.
I am not happy with what we have found, but the core of rationality is to adapt your beliefs to the available relevant evidence.  For an explanation of how this can be done, consider
"Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK", which provides an introduction to "inference to the best explanation" in reasoning about cases like these at http://www.d.umn.edu/%7Ejfetzer/fetzerexpandedx.pdf
I have benefited from collaborating with authorities in different domains, such as a world authority on the human brain and expert on wound ballistics, a Ph.D. in physics who is also an M.D. and board certified in radiation oncology;
an M.D. who was present when JFK was brought into Trauma Room #1 and two days later was responsible for the treatment of his alleged assassin in Trauma Room #2, a legendary photo analyst and another Ph.D. in electromagnetism.
In relation to 9/11, I have similarly benefitted from collaboration with physicists, pilots, engineers (structural, mechanical, aeronautical, and chemical), which has enabled me to sort things out on the basis of experts in areas where I am not.
Since David insists that I have "put my reputation through a wood chipper", as he so cavalierly puts it, let him choose the subject among those I've listed and SHOW WHAT I HAVE WRONG.  He can pick the subject and explain what I say about it and why, then explain what I have wrong and how he knows.  I don't think he can prevail on any of these subjects and if he cannot, then we will have proof positive he is the ignoramus who has no idea what he's talking about, which is already apparent to me.  So he can take up my challenge or crawl back into the hole he came out of. The world will know he's a total fraud.
Jim   

On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 8:15 PM, David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org> wrote:

I'm not going to get caught up in a tedious cycle of reply to reply to reply, mostly because Jim Fetzer has already done me the favor of putting his reputation here through the wood chipper, so thoroughly in fact that there are hardly any large chunks left that need addressing. So here's my sole reply to this thread.
>
>
>I long ago decided that there was an upper limit to the politeness a Holocaust denier can expect, so I hope you don't expect that through some sense of faux collegiality I will pretend I don't notice how Fetzer's remarks reek of eau d'Naziboy.
>
>
>What is Fetzer's argument about the number of Holocaust dead based on? He points to a website article of the form "What is it with the lying Jews and their fetish about the number six million? They're polluting the minds of white children." Here's a direct quote from the article Fetzer found so persuasive: 
>
>
>"The primary function of this insidious global propaganda campaign is to -- quite simply -- brainwash non-Jews into a state of abject fear and paralysis while we are ideologically, economically, and physically enslaved by the Jewish tribe."
>
>
>Now, remember, that's an article that Fetzer not only doesn't find racially problematic, not only finds agreeable, not only doesn't set off his racism alarm, but finds so sunnily agreeable to his worldview that he actually recommended it to the rest of this list as an example of the sort of thing that shapes his thoughts on the topic.
>
>
>I've long felt that 9/11 trooferdom, while always quite stupid, was not inherently antisemitic. It has its Jew-haters, sure, but that doesn't mean everyone.
>
>
>Steve Francis, by his selection of Jim Fetzer and Kevin Barrett, has made it clear that he has aligned himself with the Jew-hating wing of trooferdom. 
>
>
>The sad part is, I don't think that Steve Francis is motivated by antisemitism. I just think he's so completely credulous, he doesn't do the most rudimentary gut-check of the antisemitic slop people like Fetzer feed him.
>
>@%<
>
>On Sep 17, 2013, at 3:29 PM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>This is James Fetzer's response to David Gehrig's post (below)
>>
>>
>>----- Forwarded Message -----
>>From: James Fetzer <jfetzer at d.umn.edu>
>>To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> 
>>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: Fw: [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Someone is willfully misinterpreting, but that ain't me.  I am a Holocaust REVISIONIST,
>>because I believe we have inherited a grossly exaggerated account of the events that
>>are alleged to have taken place at the end of WWII.  The number of alleged "victims" of
>>the Holocaust, 6,000,000, for example, appears to be a number that has theological or
>>ideological origins and is not historically accurate.  See, for example, a study discussing
>>the origins of the 6,000,000 myth at http://zioncrimefactory.com/the-six-million-myth/
>>
>>
>>Moreover, the Nuremberg Tribunals appear to have presented a biased case to convey
>>the impression that the Nazis were responsible for the extensive starvation of inmates
>>at internment camps, when, as Robert Faurisson, "Against Hollywoodism, Revisionism", 
>>http://robertfaurisson.blogspot.com/2012/02/against-hollywoodism-revisionism.html has
>>explained, that was a consequence of Allied bombing of German cities, which interdicted
>>railroad lines and made it impossible to resupply the camps, leading to mass starvation.
>>Ironically, the Tribunals found that collective punishment is a war crime, which the Allies
>>appear to have been keen to cover-up by attributing the starvation to the Nazis instead.
>>
>>
>>There are many other reasons to doubt the "official account" of the Holocaust.  I do not
>>DENY that Jews, gypsies and the mentally and physically infirm were abused by Nazis,
>>but the nature of that abuse appears to have been exaggerated for political purposes. It
>>is no coincidence that the allegation of being a "Holocaust denier" is raised against any
>>one who is remotely critical of the actions or policies of the government of Israel, which
>>may qualify as "anti-Zionist" but does not qualify as "anti-Semitic". For more, I have a
>>half-dozen or more interviews on "The Real Deal" discussing Holocaust mythology at
>>http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com.  Anyone can go there and do a search on "Holocaust".
>>
>>
>>I published an article about this question, "Is 9/11 research 'anti-Semitic'?" in 2009. It
>>is offensive that Zionist organizations and individuals continue to attack all of us who
>>are trying to make sense of the evidence about the Holocaust and to counter the false
>>account of history that these exaggerated attacks entail, which play upon a sense of
>>Western guilt to manipulate the public to promote the political agenda of Israel.  There
>>is more that could be said here, but I would like to think this is enough.  I have most
>>recently laid out my views on these questions in an article in Veterans Today 2013:
>>http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/06/04/anti-anti-semitism-and-the-search-for-historical-truth/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Forwarded Message -----
>>>
>>>From: David Gehrig <david-cu at nukulele.org>
>>>To: Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> 
>>>Cc: occupycu <occupyCU at lists.chambana.net>; "peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; sftalk <sftalk at yahoogroups.com> 
>>>Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 8:40 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] News Gazette article on 9/11 Truth Conference, Sept. 22, Urbana Free Library
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>Is that the same Jim Fetzer who says the Nazis only killed 600,000 Jews in the Holocaust, based on his willful misinterpretation of an ICRC document? Why, yes it is. 
>>>
>>>
>>>You're not doing a very good job disentangling yourself from the Holocaust denial movement, are you. 
>>>
>>>@%<
>>>
>>>On Sep 17, 2013, at 6:28 AM, Stephen Francis <stephenf1113 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hello all,
>>>>The News Gazette has published an article (and below) on The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference this Sunday at the Urbana Free Library, in the auditorium from 1:30-4:45pm. Again, the speakers are three highly knowledgeable experts on 9/11 Truth including James Fetzer Ph.D. (founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth),Wayne Madsen (editor of WayneMadsenReport.com, Washington D.C.)and Kevin Barrett (co-founder of the Muslim Jewish Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth).  The conference is hosted by UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign and NewsFollowUp.com ... see Facebook Event   email: info at midwest911truth.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The world has changed dramatically since 9/11.  Citizens of the U.S. have seen a precipitous erosion in basic Constitutional rights since 9/11.  This usurpation of rights has been directly tied to the creation of government entities and legislation, such as the Department of Homeland Security, the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, the NDAA and revelation of massive surveillance of the American people by NSA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The first component of the conference will be to view the widely distributed and acclaimed documentary film by the Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, 'Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out'. Because AE911Truth.org is a highly significant leader in the 9/11 
>>>>Truth movement, its influential documentary deserves careful scrutiny insofar its conclusions are widely regarded as providing crucial evidence for future legal action. 
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>James Fetzer, Ph.D., will assess the A&E documentary and report the latest scientific findings about how it was done, where all sides agree that the Twin Towers could not have been brought down by the impact of airliners and resulting fires..  His analysis of the science of 9/11 will be complemented by Wayne Madsen's analysis of who was responsible and why. Kevin Barrett will moderate and add his perspective to all of these issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We seek to find answers to legitimate questions about 9/11 and to enable credible prosecutors to bring the perpetrators for these acts to 
>>>>justice.  There is a vast amount of evidence gathered to support this belief and has led to the conclusion that neo-cons in the US were aided by the intelligence services of other countries.  Supporters of the 9/11 Truth movement, including local members of UC 9/11 Truth Urbana Champaign, demand a new independent and international investigation of 9/11.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We invite all to attend. The conference is free and open to the public.
>>>>Thank you
>>>>Steve Francis 
>>>>UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign  email: info at midwest911truth.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>News Gazette article:
>>>>Sunday conference to focus on 9/11 attacks
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>Mon, 09/16/2013 - 7:40pm | The News-Gazette
>>>>URBANA — A conference planned this weekend in Urbana will explore issues surrounding the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.
>>>>The Midwest 9/11 Truth Conference will be held at 1:30 p.m. Sunday in the auditorium of the Urbana Free Library, 210 W. Green St.
>>>>The event is sponsored by UC 9/11 Truth Urbana-Champaign. (see Facebook)
>>>>Admission is free and open to the public.
>>>>People who have been studying the events of Sept. 11 will talk about their perspectives on the attacks.
>>>>"According to national and international polls, nearly 30 percent of the population is skeptical of the 'official' version of the events of 9/11," said Steve Francis of UC 9/11 Truth Champaign-Urbana. "The 9/11 Commission Report is viewed as a cover-up by a significant percentage of citizens and the 9/11 Truth Movement seeks to find answers to these questions about the real cause of those atrocities."
>>>>The conference will begin the presentation of a documentary film, "Explosive Evidence: Experts Speak Out."
>>>>James Fetzer, the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, will comment on the documentary and report on scientific findings.
>>>>Wayne Madsen, editor of WayneMadsenReport.com, will provide an analysis of who may have been responsible for the attacks and why.
>>>>Kevin Barrett, co-founder of the Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth, will serve as moderator and will add his perspective on the issues.
>>>>For more information on the event, call Fetzer at 608-354-4280.
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>OccupyCU mailing list
>>>>OccupyCU at lists.chambana.net
>>>>https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/occupycu
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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