[Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results

Tue Feb 11 16:23:26 UTC 2014

With the demize of Windows as a reasonable option for new computer hardware,
we have been looking at Slackware GNU/Linux as a possible alternative.  
I bring it up in
command line mode rather that as a gui, and it greets one with random 
pithy quotes-

Got this one a couple of days ago:

"If the Government doesn't like the People,
it should get rid of all of them,
and elect new people."

On 2/11/2014 11:58 PM, Karen Aram wrote:
> Excuse my ignorance of local affairs please, but as someone who 
> supports Carol Ammons, given her pro-labor, pro-choice, etc. 
> platform, I am a bit perplexed at the personal attacks on Carl for 
> asking a question related to "enterprise and/or technology zones". I 
> am attempting to understand this issue and how it relates to taxation 
> and use of public funds in support of corporations. However, its 
> difficult given the accusations of racism, etc., for simply asking the 
> question and pointing out that some of us believed in our current 
> President because he supported anti-war, and appeared to support the 
> poor etc. Carls point should be taken as a lesson, in that perhaps we 
> were blinded by Obama being the first African American to have a 
> chance at holding such a powerful position, assuming he would be as we 
> imagined, only to be sadly disappointed that he is not MLK. Perhaps if 
> we had looked closer at his policies related to issues and not been 
> dazzled by his charm and charisma we might have supported someone 
> who better represented our views, if the Party were to allow it.
> Public figures policy stands need to be examined thoroughly.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:22:27 -0800
> From: jencart13 at yahoo.com
> To: mkbrussel at comcast.net; carl at newsfromneptune.com
> CC: jrbarret at uiuc.edu; peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net; 
> sf-core at yahoogroups.com; occupycu at lists.chambana.net
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. 
> ROSENBERG Debate Results
>
> The principal objector's thinking about women's issues is well known, 
> so regardless of the excuses he's come up with, I'm guessing the real 
> reason is that Carol Ammons supports Planned Parenthood.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel at comcast.net>
> *To:* C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
> *Cc:* "Barrett, James R" <jrbarret at uiuc.edu>; Peace-discuss 
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>; sf-core <sf-core at yahoogroups.com>; 
> "occupycu at lists.chambana.net" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2014 3:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace-discuss] [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. 
> ROSENBERG Debate Results
>
> I find it curious that you appear to be putting all " progressive, 
> ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate(s)" into the same bag 
> (as M. Obama). What do you have against Carol Ammons (as against her 
> opponents) aside from the fact that she has the same color as Obama 
> (which could mislead us in our choice).
>
> --mkb
>
> On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:33 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
> > The national Democrats offered "a progressive, ostentatiously 
> pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in Terms of 
> class inequality" for president, and his mendacity got us an 
> administration of assassination and austerity.
> >
> > Doesn't that suggest that we should ask what "progressive, 
> ostentatiously pro-labor viable Black candidate[s]" on the local level 
> actually propose, rather than voting for them out of debased identity 
> politics?
> >
> > --CGE
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2014, at 12:22 PM, Barrett, James R <jrbarret at uiuc.edu 
> <mailto:jrbarret at uiuc.edu>> wrote:
> >
> >> Very discouraging. I doubt anyone agrees with all of her
> >> views, but we have a progressive, ostentatiously
> >> pro-labor viable Black candidate who is willing to speak in
> >> Terms of class inequality and we're supposed
> >> to invest our limited time into attacking her? That's sick.
> >>
> >> Jim Barrett
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com> 
> [sf-core at yahoogroups.com <mailto:sf-core at yahoogroups.com>] on behalf 
> of C. G. Estabrook [carl at newsfromneptune.com 
> <mailto:carl at newsfromneptune.com>]
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 9:39 AM
> >> To: David Johnson
> >> Cc: sf-core; Peace-discuss; occupycu at lists.chambana.net 
> <mailto:occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [sf-core] Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate 
> Results [1 Attachment]
> >>
> >> [Attachment(s) from C. G. Estabrook included below]
> >>
> >> David--
> >>
> >> As you know, "enterprise zones" are a neoliberal technique, 
> originally proposed by 'supply-side' economists. Their current 
> proponents acknowledge successful criticism by looking for newer, more 
> marketable names - e.g., "technology zones."
> >>
> >> It's not clear that states and municipalities should be competing 
> to give breaks to corporate entities on the threat that they might 
> move away and take jobs - or on the promise to bring them. See e.g., 
> Durl Kruse' letter (attached) regarding the Champaign City Council's 
> "Tax Increment Financing District" that will give Kraft "a $3.6 
> million tax subsidy to build a new warehouse."
> >>
> >> Durl writes, "One must wonder if this TIF project represents the 
> flexing of corporate muscle by threatening the community 'not to build 
> if not approved,' and when given the opportunity, to directly 
> manipulate TIF laws for corporate gain at taxpayers' expense."
> >>
> >> Clearly, the supposed benefits of such a program should generalize. 
> You can make an argument for "an across the board corporate tax cut" 
> to promote trade and employment. Such business taxes should be 
> replaced with taxes on concentrated wealth and speculation - i.e., 
> taxes on investable assets, and Tobin taxes.
> >>
> >> Given the entrenched (non-democratic) political power of capital, 
> wealth taxes and Tobin taxes are not on the horizon in Illinois, 
> unfortunately. (The Democrats should of course be opposed on this 
> point.) The best we can do in the near future seems to be a 
> progressive income tax and social subsidies, including perhaps the 
> state single-payer system that you've been working for.
> >>
> >> Regards, CGE
> >>
> >> On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:21 PM, David Johnson 
> <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net <mailto:davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>> 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The differnce is that Rosenberg supports an across the board 
> corporate tax cut with no conditions.
> >>>
> >>> Carol Ammons " Technology Zone Program " gives a tax break to a 
> company ONLY if a company ;
> >>>
> >>> 1) increases employment by the greater of 10 % of its current 
> workforce or a minimum of 3 new full-time employees
> >>>
> >>> 2) Pays wages of 20 % or more above the median income of Champaign 
> County
> >>>
> >>> 3) Employ a minimum of 5 full-time employees
> >>>
> >>> Not to mention that Rosenberg is an attorney who works for Carle 
> Clinic and takes poor and elderly people to court for not paying 
> hospital bills.
> >>>
> >>> Carol has been a community activist for over a decade, opposing 
> the : Police, States Attorney and other local officials / vested 
> interests at times when necessary in the pursuit of social justice.
> >>>
> >>> Again, the choice is clear to me who would be the better advocate 
> for Working people in the 103rd District
> >>>
> >>> David Johnson
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: C. G. Estabrook
> >>> To: David Johnson
> >>> Cc: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@mail0.frost.chambana.net>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:29 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [OccupyCU] AMMONS vs. ROSENBERG Debate Results
> >>>
> >>> Didn't Carol support 'enterprise zones' (under another name), 
> which are even more substantial corporate tax cats - for favored 
> corporations?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:24 PM, David Johnson 
> <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net <mailto:davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net>> 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I just returned from the Ammons vs. Rosenberg debate, for the 
> Illinois 103rd State Rep Democratic Primary race.
> >>>>
> >>>> The major differences between the two candidates were ;
> >>>>
> >>>> Rosenberg SUPPORTS cutting corporate taxes and OPPOSES the $ 
> 15.00 per hour minimum wage.
> >>>>
> >>>> Carol Ammons in contrast OPPOSES cutting corporate taxes and 
> SUPPORTS the $ 15.00 per hour minimum wage.
> >>>>
> >>>> Rosenberg also stated that Carol Ammons experience in local 
> government on the County Board and the Urbana City Council does NOT 
> make her more qualified than him in terms of experience.
> >>>> He stated that ;
> >>>> " Springfield is a different BEAST than local government and I am 
> more qualified to deal with that."
> >>>>
> >>>> The difference could not be any clearer to me.
> >>>>
> >>>> What was also interesting was that I submitted TWO questions for 
> the candidates, first via e-mail several days before the debate and 
> early on at the debate.
> >>>> Neither question was asked !
> >>>>
> >>>> The questions were ;
> >>>>
> >>>> 1) Would you be willing to co-sponsor the current House Bill to 
> enact a universal health care system in Illinois ( H.B. 942 ).
> >>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>>
> >>>> 2) Would you co-sponsor House Bill H.B. 3754 that would dissolve 
> the Illinois Charter School Commision
> >>>>
> >>>> I wonder why the Moderators avoided asking these questions ?
> >>>>
> >>>> David Johnson
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
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