[Peace-discuss] [Discuss] Common Core

Mon Jan 27 01:37:29 UTC 2014

Phony liberal-conservative debate about the common core distracts us from both economic issues and legitimate educational issues, just as Bill Gates wants us to be.

On Sunday, January 26, 2014 7:30 PM, David Johnson <davidjohnson1451 at comcast.net> wrote:

Interesting discussion on " Common Core " and 
educational policy. 
>  
>I did some research about " Common Core " and it 
appears that the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation are big promoters of Common  
>Core, including a $ 160 Million dollar 
donation. 
>  
>That alone makes me suspicious of Common Core, 
since Bill Gates is a big promoter of privatized corporate charter 
schools. 
>  
>David Johnson 
>
>----- Original Message -----  
>>From: Lynn  Stuckey  
>>To: David Green ; Peace Discuss ; discuss list  
>>Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:02  PM 
>>Subject: Re: [Discuss] Common Core 
>>
>> 
>>On  a genuinely democratic basis, without pressure and harassment, parents,  teachers, administrators, citizens, and developing children can make sound  decisions in accordance with their local proclivities and genuine concern  about their children's futures. On the basis of consensual school/community  standards in various disciplines, teachers, parents, and children can make  choices that consider the gifts and talents of each child, as well as the  labor market. These gifts and talents may have vocational possibilities or  otherwise, but it will be up to children, in consultation with their parents  and teachers, to make choices with various implications for their development  and their future.
>>
>>Sorry, David, but you've just made 
  it clear that you've always lived in places where adults regard it as their 
  responsibility to educate children.  I must unfortunately inform you that 
  not every community thinks that way (many rural communities are good places of 
  the thinking that drives their underinvestment in education), and your 
  proposed solution will leave these children undereducated and consigned to 
  lower earnings and achievement throughout their life.  While it may make 
  the adults feel good, how does it help the children develop into productive 
  adults?  How does this further your goal of a progressive, more just 
  society?
>>
>>As a person who grew up in one of those communities that takes 
  pride in undereducating their children, it is not a pleasant place to be in, 
  and there is a reason I refused to subject my own child to that type of 
  education.  I do not appreciate your willingness to throw so many 
  children away.  Not every child gets the chance to grow up in a community 
  like Champaign-Urbana.
>>
>>Lynn
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 15:30:10 -0800
>>From: 
  davegreen84 at yahoo.com
>>Subject: Re: [Discuss] Common Core
>>To: 
  lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com; peace-discuss at anti-war.net; 
  discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net
>>
>>
>>Hi 
Lynn, 
>>
>> 
>>So long as  schools are accorded the role of sorting out students for their assigned  places in brutal capitalism with its radical inequality, then there is not  much the schools can do one way or the other. Once we've addressed economic  issues as economic issues, then we can address educational issues as  educational issues, and let the chips fall where they may. We can have  national or state standards, but these should not be mandatory. On a genuinely  democratic basis, without pressure and harassment, parents, teachers,  administrators, citizens, and developing children can make sound decisions in  accordance with their local proclivities and genuine concern about their  children's futures. On the basis of consensual school/community standards in  various disciplines, teachers, parents, and children can make choices that  consider the gifts and talents of each child, as well as the labor market.  These gifts and talents may have vocational
 possibilities or otherwise, but it  will be up to children, in consultation with their parents and teachers, to  make choices with various implications for their development and their future.  On this basis schools can come to address the needs of the individual in the  community, rather than groups whose interests, while worthy of consideration,  should have no bearing on the development and choices of the  child/adolescent/young adult. 
>>
>> 
>>Best, 
>>
>> 
>>David 
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sunday, January 26, 2014 12:53 PM, Lynn  Stuckey <lynn.stuckey at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>  School districts (parents, teachers, students,  citizens) need to develop their own standards.  "Developing their  own standards" is what gives us one set of textbooks for Texas and another  for the rest of the country.  Is this a path you would like to continue  on?  Do you really think the science books that teach about creationism  are doing those children any favors?
>>> Standards don't  have to be uniform, even among schools or classrooms.  And if the  standards are not uniform, how can we be certain that all children in a  particular grade level are able to read, write, or do arithmetic at a  particular level?  A high school diploma is no longer a guarantee that  you can read or write; it has devolved into a marker that you can show up  for enough classes and stay out of enough trouble to make it through.   Hence "credential inflation", best symbolized by the drapery company in town  that expects its receptionist to possess a four-year degree, yet will only  pay her minimum wage.  Any questions as to why this job is constantly  in the want ads?
>>>They should result from communities  developing an educational identity.  I can't remember where you're  from, David, but I know you've lived in C-U for almost as long as I  have.  I grew up on a farm almost 70 miles south of here, in a county  of 14,000 residents (2010 census:  11,400; about 98% white) that is  economically depressed and in (proud) possession of bad schools.  You  need to understand that many small and rural school districts don't place a  high premium on educational achievement, but the Republican-dominated school  boards expect and agitate for state payments.  Do you realize how many  school districts in Illinois don't have Advanced Placement or Honors  classes?  Do you realize how many of the voting citizens of those  counties are more concerned about how their high school football or  basketball team is doing, but don't care about the kids who are below  average on reading or math tests?  Then they wonder why they can't 
 attract economic development, and why their population keeps declining and  getting poorer.  
>>>
>>>"Developing an 
    educational identity" sounds great on paper and may work well in a 
    university town, where folks recognize the need for all children to be 
    achieving to the best of their abilities.   But it is a disaster for children from areas like the one I grew up in,  where the interest is not on educating children, but rather on making sure  they show up so the district can collect the maximum payment from the  State.
>>>
>>>And I'm not a huge fan of Common 
    Core--while the initial idea was good, the back-mapping of what children 
    need to learn, when they need to learn it (often not based on when their 
    developing brains are ready to do it), and the execution of its rollout are 
    horrible, and it's going to fail as badly as pretty much any other education 
    "reform" propogated in American schools since the early 1900's.
>>>
>>>What's the answer, you ask?  Well, I'm a fan 
    of the money following the child.   I would abolish attendance 
    boundaries and allow parents and children to flee the schools that are 
    failing children.  And yes, some schools will close, but why shouldn't 
    you be out of business when you won't even bother to make the effort to 
    ensure all children are achieving to the best of their abilities?  Why 
    should a family held be captive to the board's disinterest in and 
    unwillingness to educate children to necessary levels, simply because of 
    their address?  Mine was, and let me tell you, it was not a pleasant 
    experience to be told that my school would not be willing to pay for 
    independent studies in Chemistry II and Physics II my senior year of high 
    school, and that I must round up 12 children to take Calculus (the 9 I had 
    found were considered to be an "insufficient number", out of a class of 78 
    seniors).  But I was welcome to take P.E. for an additional period, and 
    had I considered Woodworking or Automotive class?  Really?  This 
    is what you want to continue paying for?  Do you have any reason to 
    wonder why the four siblings who got a chance to go to the Illinois Math and 
    Science Academy fled there instead?
>>>
>>>"Money 
    following the child" is the model we use for college in the U.S.  I 
    don't buy the argument that parents are incapable of making decisions for 
    the best education for their child from ages 5-17, but once that child hits 
    18, s/he can make a good decision about what college and career path they 
    are best suited for.  Just check out the statistics on how many people 
    complete college in six years or less, or the rates of degree attainment in 
    community colleges.  Just because some parents make educational 
    decisions you might not agree with does not make them wrong.
>>>
>>>Lynn Stuckey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2014 07:24:56 -0800
>>>From: 
    davegreen84 at yahoo.com
>>>To: peace-discuss at anti-war.net; 
    discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net
>>>Subject: 
    [Discuss] Common Core
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/01/24-10 
>>>
>>> 
>>>Indispensable for an understanding how corrupted the "liberal vs.  conservative" debate is regarding school "reform". School districts  (parents, teachers, students, citizens) need to develop their own standards.  Standards don't have to be uniform, even among schools or classrooms. They  should result from communities developing an educational identity. 
>>>
>>> 
>>>DG
>>>_______________________________________________ Discuss mailing 
    list Discuss at lists.chambana.net 
    https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss-communitycourtwatch
>>>
>>> 
>>
>>________________________________
>>
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>
>     
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