[Peace-discuss] [OccupyCU] ISIS trained by US reports Examiner, PressTV, Reuters, Der Spiegel

Sat Jul 19 22:36:09 EDT 2014

"People say that if you don't love America, then get the hell out. Well, I love America. We love the people of America very much, but when it comes to the government, it stops right there. The government is a bunch of corrupt thieves, they are rapists and robbers. And we are here to say that we don't have to take it anymore. We are here to say that we are here to tell the truth; they are killing our brothers in Vietnam! We want them to hear the truth tonight!" 

--Ron Kovic to a news camera, outside the 1972 Republican Convention, in the film "Born on the Fourth of July" (1989), directed by Oliver Stone, written by Kovic and Stone, based on Kovic's best selling autobiography of the same name.

The corruption and lies of the Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon war in SE Asia continue to the corruption and lies of the Bush-Obama war in SW Asia. US government policy is consistent - and murderous - across decades and administrations.  

The rest of the speech is equally applicable: 

"I'm here tonight to say that this war is wrong, that this society lied to me, lied to my brothers. They've deceived the people of this country, tricked them into going 13,000 miles to fight a war against a poor, peasant people who have a proud history of resistance, who have been struggling for their own independence for 1,000 years ... I can't find the words to express, and the leadership of this government sickens me..."

On Jul 17, 2014, at 10:33 PM, Stan via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Well I am sorry you hate America. I for one love what America "stands" for, and would like to achieve it.
> Vote Democratic
> 
> 
> "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
> 
> 'Ghost Wars' (2004) was written by Steve Coll, the former head of the New America Foundation, the board of which includes Michael Lind and Walter Russell Mead; he was succeeded by the awful Anne-Marie Slaughter. Its politics shouldn't be hard to figure out. 
> 
> Why is it "clear that America needs to stop foreign military involvement"?  So that the US government can maintain the military hegemony over the world that it's enjoyed since WWII, for the profits of the 1% (and the impoverishment of the vast majority)?  To that end US presidents (of both parties) have killed, wounded and made homeless well over 20 million human beings in the last 50 years, mostly civilians.
> 
> I'm against that & will support politicians who promise to liquidate America's 1,000 overseas military bases and bring home US troops (and mercenaries), including the 'Special Forces' now active in 124 countries around the world - with kidnapping ("rendition"), assassination, and torture being their remit. 
> 
> You're right of course about the "much deserved hatred for America."
> 
> 
> On Jul 14, 2014, at 6:07 PM, Stan via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
>> Well the book Ghost Wars puts the bulk of responsibility on Reagan and Bush 41 for support of radical Islam. It is clear that America needs to stop foreign military involvement. However when we do the most likely group to fill the void is going to have a much deserved hatred for America.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>> 
>> No, it was the Carter administration  who chose "radical factions to support in Afghanistan against the Russians" (before the Soviet invasion). The Reagan administration - in this as in other things - continued the Carter policies. 
>> 
>> See the famous1998 interview with Carter National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski in Le Nouvel Observateur for confirmation.
>> 
>> Reagan didn't "refuse to support the Northern Alliance" because the Northern Alliance (mostly Tajik) didn't exist until five years after Reagan left office, when the Taliban (mostly Pashtun) established its control over Afghanistan.  
>> 
>> In several senses, you can't make this stuff up.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 14, 2014, at 12:02 PM, Stan via OccupyCU <occupycu at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> It was the Reagan admin that choose radical factions to support in Afghanistan against the Russians   Reagan refused to support the Northern Alliance, a more moderate group than the Saudi groups they fed through Pakistan.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Are you able to be specific?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 10, 2014, at 8:15 PM, Stan via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You guys are so wrong the light from wrong can not reach you.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> "C. G. Estabrook via OccupyCU" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This is consistent US policy, for at least 40 years, Democrat as well as Republican.
>>>> 
>>>> The Carter administration (1977-81) invented modern jihadism by rounding up the most fanatical fighters it could find in the Mideast, arming them in the most expensive CIA operation to date, and sending them into Afghanistan (*before* the Russian invasion) "to give the Soviets a Vietnam of their own"!
>>>> 
>>>> Carter's Russophobe National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski (also an adviser to Obama's presidential campaign), famously told an interviewer from Le Nouvel Observateur in 1998, "What is most important to the history of the world? ... Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?"
>>>> 
>>>> The "few stirred-up Muslims" came to include al-Qaeda and the perpetrators of the 9/11/2001 attacks. 
>>>> 
>>>> Divide et impera, the Roman imperial maxim, has guided US attempts to promote conflict and play both sides against the middle in order to secure control of the Mideast energy resources, "the world's greatest material prize," as the US State Department declared in 1945. 
>>>> 
>>>> In this century that has meant a purposeful US policy of setting Sunni against Shia in a vicious regional civil war, which had not existed before the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. 
>>>> 
>>>> --CGE
>>>> 

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