[Peace-discuss] [Discuss] [sf-core] Re: [Peace] Governor signs Israeli bill; not opposed by local Democrats

Sun Jul 26 14:57:30 EDT 2015

I second Brian's call to get this off the CUCPJ list.

James

James Kilgore
Research Scholar
Center for African Studies
University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Brian Dolinar <briandolinar at gmail.com>
wrote:

> David - it looks like you tried to pull CUCPJ into this conversation, this
> is off topic for us, please avoid using the CUCPJ Discuss list for this
> purpose. I have moved from being irate to being saddened by how this
> conversation has devolved. If you want to talk about this, please come talk
> to me when you see me, or call me - 621-5827. BD
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:50 AM, David Green via
> Discuss-CommunityCourtwatch <
> discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> I would only wish for a genuine ideological battle rather than the
>> Zionist-like avoidance and innuendo that has characterized the repressive
>> forces in this discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Sunday, July 26, 2015 10:45 AM, C. G. Estabrook <
>> carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> James—
>>
>> (1) Did you note where that vicious “two year old” slur originated…?
>>
>> (2) What do you make of the determinations BLM seem to have made (and on
>> whose behalf) at the NetRoots Nation?
>>
>> <http://www.blackagendareport.com/netroots-nation-confrontation>
>>
>> Regards, Carl
>>
>>
>> On Jul 26, 2015, at 10:15 AM, James Kilgore <jjincu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't want to get immersed in this ideological battle but I do have two
>> things to say:
>> 1. It is totally offensive and disrespectful to refer to anyone as a "two
>> year old" and engage in other personal slander. This is precisely the kinds
>> of vitriol we hear directed at those fighting for liberation. Certainly we
>> can keep the discussion on the issues and keep away from petty personal
>> attacks. As someone who has been the target of such attacks from the
>> mainstream media, I am particularly irate at these kinds of comments from
>> people representing a Left politics.
>>
>> 2. You have no right to state who has to be accountable to Black Lives
>> Matter. That is for BLM to determine.
>>
>> In solidarity,
>> James
>>
>> James Kilgore
>> Research Scholar
>> Center for African Studies
>> University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:59 AM, David Green via
>> Discuss-CommunityCourtwatch <
>> discuss-communitycourtwatch at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>> Astrid, I've never known you to engage in any extended coherent
>> discussion of anything in good faith. Perhaps you see the entire world as a
>> 2-year-old.
>>
>> But of course I'm willing to publicly debate you about Israel, SB 1761,
>> etc.
>>
>> Yes, the situations in South Africa and Israel/Palestine are somewhat
>> different. The racist nature of SA was well understood; yet, even so, the
>> US supported it, and Israel developed nuclear weapons with it and provided
>> it with arms to support its murderous onslaughts against Angola and
>> Mozambique in the 1980s.
>>
>> Israel is equally and in many ways more perversely racist in its
>> institutional practices, but for some time has been much more central as a
>> strategic asset to the US. It's on this basis that the American people, and
>> Jews in particular, are supposed to exalt Israel's alleged virtues. Among
>> those, of course, are an apartheid system in the occupied territories, a
>> genocidal siege on Gaza with regular massacres, a thriving arms industry,
>> and a body of propaganda that rivals Nazi Germany for its inventiveness
>> (which is not to gainsay US propaganda).
>>
>> This is not even to mention the religious fanaticism that has been stoked
>> by illegal Jewish settlement, and the moral desiccation of the Jewish
>> community in our own country (and community).
>>
>> Illinois legislators were asked to except being disciplined by the Israel
>> Lobby; they were asked to assure the public and the powers that be that
>> there would not be a hint of dissent to the Lobby's mafia-like hold on the
>> governmental discourse in our state regarding Israel's crimes (and our
>> own). This is partly, of course, related to the repressive measures against
>> Steven Salaita.
>>
>> These goals were achieved in a secretive, stealthy, and undemocratic
>> manner in Springfield. Nevertheless, Ammons and Bennett are perfectly well
>> aware of the import of their actions. And Carol's explanation to the
>> Prairie Greens meeting a couple of weeks ago was utterly disingenuous.
>>
>> These are serious issues, which of course have to be avoided by those who
>> engage in despicable (and, ironically, childish) personal attacks.
>>
>> David Green
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Saturday, July 25, 2015 6:06 PM, Astrid Berkson via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>  the situations are entirely different, but no one has the sheer
>> endurance to continue an a discussion with you when you simply repeat
>> yourself ad infinitum. One thing i learned as a mother is never to engage
>> in a contest of wills with a two year old because he has nothing better to
>> do.
>>
>>
>> On 7/25/2015 5:26 PM, 'C. G. Estabrook' carl at newsfromneptune.com
>> [sf-core] wrote:
>>
>>
>>  I take your failure to answer to be a recognition that our
>> representatives should vote against apartheid, in South Africa and Israel.
>>
>> The legal maxim is, ‘If the facts are for you, argue the facts; if the
>> law is for you, argue the law; if neither, attack opposing counsel.'
>>
>> > On Jul 25, 2015, at 3:03 PM, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com>
>> <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Not surprisingly you're missing the point. The point has nothing to do
>> with South Africa, or even Israel. The point is you're a -- well, pompous
>> ass is accurate enough, but too cliched. Donald Trump comes to mind as an
>> apt comparison, except some people take him seriously, so I guess I'm at a
>> loss. Nevertheless, that your missives are uniformly hostile and boorish, I
>> can tolerate. Sometimes they even amuse me for their total lack of judgment
>> and sense of scale, much the way Trump does. What does not amuse me is they
>> are counterproductive to moving toward the better world everyone on these
>> lists wants to see. So I wish you'd shut up, but I know you won't.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Saturday, July 25, 2015 12:45 PM, C. G. Estabrook
>> <carl at newsfromneptune.com> <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Sorry. I meant to ask, What did you think of South African apartheid?
>> >
>> > If the South African government had engineered a vote in its favor in
>> the Illinois legislature a generation ago, what do you think your
>> representatives should have done?
>> >
>> > The parallel isn’t exact: Israeli apartheid in the Occupied Territories
>> is worse than South African apartheid ever was.
>> >
>> > —CGE
>> >
>> >> On Jul 25, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Carl G. Estabrook
>> <galliher at illinois.edu> <galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> > Have you score on South African apartheid?
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> > On Jul 25, 2015, at 11:28 AM, Gregg Gordon via Peace-discuss
>> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree with Mr. Kay. Thanks for speaking up.
>> >
>> > Gregg Gordon
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Friday, July 24, 2015 10:40 PM, C. G. Estabrook via Peace
>> <peace at lists.chambana.net> <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Would you say the same if they’d failed to vote against apartheid in
>> South Africa?
>> >
>> > (BTW, I haven’t done a radio program in years: are you sure you’re
>> listening to others’ points of view?)
>> >
>> > Regards, CGE
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Jul 24, 2015, at 10:21 PM, Bruce KAY <bruce.kay at homemail.com.au>
>> <bruce.kay at homemail.com.au> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Mr Estabrook,
>> >>
>> >> You are a painfully single-issue twat. You have zero political nous.
>> You fail to understand that Scott Bennett and Carol Ammons are good
>> representatives of Champaign Urbana despite that they are not Green Party
>> members and despite that they do not always agree with you sir, You show no
>> tolerance of the compromises Carol and Scott are forced to make as working
>> politicians attempting to achieve the policies they perceive as most
>> important for our C-U constituency. You fail to understand, let alone
>> acknowledge the cut and thrust of state politics. You try to bask in your
>> former glory as a past candidate, without ever grasping the real reason why
>> you never got elected. Because you are uncompromising. You pontificate on
>> your radio program with obnoxious opinions, consistently displaying your
>> inability to listen to others’ points of view.
>> >>
>> >> For the past few weeks I have desisted from commenting on your tirade
>> of harassment of Carol Ammons and Scott Bennett. But you are so one-eyed
>> that your opinions amount to harassment.
>> >>
>> >> I too favor the Green Party, and support Jill Stein for President. But
>> I don’t subscribe to your brand of hateful chauvinist aggression
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Please Mr C G Estabrook, pull your head in.
>> >>
>> >> Nobody wants to be harangued by your diatribe of hatred.
>> >> Bruce
>> >> bruce.kay at homemail.com.au
>> >> +1 217 419 9140 (in the USA)
>> >> +61 412 213 689 (in Australia)
>> >> Home address: 96 Murranji Street Hawker ACT Australia 2614
>> >> Address in USA: 4018 N. Lincoln Avenue Champaign ILL USA 61822
>> >> _________________________________
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Jul 24, 2015, at 20:34, C. G. Estabrook <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>> <carl at newsfromneptune.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/new-illinois-law-does-not-make-bds-illegal
>> >>>
>> >>> The self-styled liberals from C-U, state senator Scott Bennett and
>> state representative Carol Ammons, refused to vote against this bill,
>> promoted by the government of Israel. The bill supports Israeli apartheid:
>> they would not have refused to vote against a bill supporting South African
>> apartheid a generation ago.
>> >>>
>> >>> —CGE
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>  __._,_.___
>>   ------------------------------
>> Posted by: "C. G. Estabrook" <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
>> <carl at newsfromneptune.com>
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>
>
> --
> Brian Dolinar, Ph.D.
> briandolinar.com
>
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