[Peace-discuss] what's up with the Clinton nuke bailout?

Thu Jun 2 00:01:14 UTC 2016

I admit I'm not a nuclear scientist as is Mort however.....

Though using nuclear power to eliminate carbon emissions is acceptable to many people, as an asthmatic I could prefer it to fossil fuels, but I don't because the cost is still too high if there is an accident. And, though I accept the technology as created being sound, just as the engineers designing and constructing generally know what they are doing, nonetheless there is always human error, either in the construction, maintaining, or as in Fukushima, acts of nature.

Mort's statement "Human physiology has adapted to the natural radiations of the environments throughout (human) evolution. It’s probably inherent in our immune systems'' Really?  So, how many generations does that take. Is it the pesticides that are killing us, the radiation we are surrounded by, the chemicals in our water or is the cancer rate in developed societies to be ignored.

And, what about disposal, we still have no means of disposal of that which we create. Just look to Nevada on that one. I know the engineers proud of their work which is now of concern.

As to people screaming, I'm referring to scientists in reference to the leaching from the plants, I forgot to mention Indian Point in New York state. The one recently in California, and there are still issues of containment in Chernobyl.

Yes, China and India are likely planning to go ahead with more plants, at least they were a few years ago, I recruited the people to build the most recent Chinese plants for a US corporation, and it was a very difficult process because the US, so desperate to gain the contract, settled for one that paid significantly lower salaries than what most Americans or Canadians would consider. The Chinese government wanted top quality employees from the US, but they weren't willing to pay for it. I had to recruit lesser qualified Asians and Eastern Europeans most of the time, because my US employer was only concerned with the profit. Since then, the government of France invested in creating a school in China to teach nuclear power to new grads, those with little or no experience who will be the constructers of the future.

The security of nuclear power plants is also an issue, given that an 80 year old nun and colleagues with no weapons were able to access one recently, just to prove how easily it can be accomplished. A nation so concerned with "terrorism", should be more concerned with the security of our nuclear and chemical plants.

I do agree with Mort's last statement, that Finally, I offer the opinion that the production and distribution of energy should not be under private profit making corporations. Good luck on that one, all of the  companies involved in the production or upgrading of nuclear power plants are concerned with profit. And, even if a public company, or the government offering oversight, given the risk the US is willing to take with nuclear weapons in the S. China Sea and the border of Russia, I certainly wouldn't trust them either.

Back to Bob's question, I think nuclear plants should be closed down and replaced with solar power, something that is safe and doesn't degrade, the price keeps coming down with time, and it would provide jobs, that's an industry we should be focused on.

________________________________
From: naiman.uiuc at gmail.com <naiman.uiuc at gmail.com> on behalf of Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 5:24:59 PM
To: Brussel, Morton K
Cc: Karen Aram; Peace-discuss List
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] what's up with the Clinton nuke bailout?

Considering the argument that we should subsidize nuclear power because of climate change: shouldn't Exelon, or someone, have to show that this is the most efficient way to achieve reductions in carbon emissions for the amount of subsidy?

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org<http://www.justforeignpolicy.org>
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
(202) 448-2898 x1

On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 4:47 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
I consider this largely as an ignorant statement.  Some people are screaming— it becomes a fetish— and most of those are trading on an fear bred from ignorance. Even for TMI, Chernobyl and Fukushima, mortality rates from nuclear power per se  have been, all sources considered ( in mining, in construction, pollution, …),  lower than for other principal sources of energy. The dangers from present reactors are essentially nonexistent. Fear has made the consequences of the extreme examples above worse. What do one really know about the harms emanating presently from Hanford, or leakage of tritium from a few reactors? Meanwhile, we all receive the benefits from nuclear radiation in our health systems, and think little about it. One might note that small amounts of toxic materials often have beneficial effects, medications and x-rays ,for example. Human physiology has adapted to the natural radiations of the environments throughout (human) evolution. It’s probably inherent in our immune systems. Meanwhile, nuclear power plants will have to be used to limit carbon emissions/ global warming in future decades, so even if not “economical” compared to fossil fuels now, it behooves states to develop and produce  even better reactors in the future. This is increasingly being recognized by governments and environmentalists. China and India, among others, are planning to develop and increase their nuclear power sources. There are too many unsubstanciated assertions in the discussion below, as regards France for example.

Finally, I offer the opinion that the production and distribution of energy should not be under private profit making corporations.

—mkb

Bob

Good question, because all around the world people are screaming to close down nuclear plants. In the US we have Hanford in the state of Washington, which has been leaking dangerous amounts of radiation for some time now. Turkey Point in Fla. is a problem. And, one must keep in mind the US hasn't built a new nuclear plant in over 36 years. It's true Westinghouse has developed the most up to date model, they are marketing.

In France, the #1 when it comes to building nuclear power plants, workers have gone on strike and now management is attempting to prevent cool downs which are very dangerous if not controlled properly. Managers are not necessarily skilled workers either.

The Chinese put a hold on their production of new plants after the Fukashima disaster, though I will have to update my info. on that.

The concern over workers being unemployed is a joke, given the lack of concern for workers in general in this state/nation.

Maybe it's because there is big money in the financing of upgrading nuclear power plants that has this issue on the table of concern. Or, the fact that prices are coming down for solar, which also provides employment, and doesn't degrade the environment.

________________________________
From: Peace-discuss <peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net>> on behalf of Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 6:02:26 PM
To: Peace-discuss List
Subject: [Peace-discuss] what's up with the Clinton nuke bailout?

Could someone please explain to us why it's a good idea to have a ratepayer bailout of Exelon's nuclear power plants?

"Exelon's plan would raise electric rates statewide -- it said it would cost the typical residential user about 25 cents a month — in order to keep open the Clinton plant and another nuclear unit near the Quad Cities. Exelon said earlier this month that the plants have lost about $800 million over the last six years, mainly because natural gas prices have been so low and have undercut nuclear power's cost."

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2016-05-30/sponsor-no-vote-exelon-bill-future-clinton-plant-unclear.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.news-2Dgazette.com_news_local_2016-2D05-2D30_sponsor-2Dno-2Dvote-2Dexelon-2Dbill-2Dfuture-2Dclinton-2Dplant-2Dunclear.html&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=PDZHcEYtjspZ1tFSr7-5vkZlsgNSVpEDesocW4HlXjQ&s=fX-guHVuP3Eevas8Os5SfA9SEs23xz25j_sGcK99IXQ&e=>

===

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.justforeignpolicy.org&d=CwMFAg&c=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQ&r=9eBn2xukb4K19JC8Bn8zUQ&m=PDZHcEYtjspZ1tFSr7-5vkZlsgNSVpEDesocW4HlXjQ&s=aXNJ0YS5_Z_NA2iUQy8SdXeo6YMGzgJeMz447YMw2QU&e=>
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
(202) 448-2898 x1<tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1>
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