[Peace-discuss] Fwd: [ufpj-activist] The election

Wed Oct 12 16:32:56 UTC 2016

This thread from UFPJ is worth a read and thought.

—mkb

Begin forwarded message:

From: Michael Eisenscher <meisenscher at gmail.com<mailto:meisenscher at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re[4]: [ufpj-activist] The election
Date: October 12, 2016 at 12:34:44 AM CDT
To: Per Fagereng <phantom at hevanet.com<mailto:phantom at hevanet.com>>, chuck woolery <chuck at igc.org<mailto:chuck at igc.org>>, "David McReynolds" <davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com<mailto:davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com>>, "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>>
Cc: Committees of Correspondence <national at cc-ds.org<mailto:national at cc-ds.org>>, ufpj-activist <ufpj-activist at lists.mayfirst.org<mailto:ufpj-activist at lists.mayfirst.org>>
Reply-To: Michael Eisenscher <meisenscher at gmail.com<mailto:meisenscher at gmail.com>>

Thanks Doc!

It's easy to turn political figures into cartoons.  Unfortunately, their conduct has real world consequences.

I suppose of most politicians are psychopaths, we ought to demand a mental health exam prior to qualifying for the ballot.  We can add that to the demand that they release their tax returns and turn over their personal computer hard drives.

m

------ Original Message ------
From: "Per Fagereng" <phantom at hevanet.com<mailto:phantom at hevanet.com>>
To: "Michael Eisenscher" <meisenscher at gmail.com<mailto:meisenscher at gmail.com>>; "chuck woolery" <chuck at igc.org<mailto:chuck at igc.org>>; "David McReynolds" <davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com<mailto:davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com>>; "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu<mailto:brussel at illinois.edu>>
Cc: "Committees of Correspondence" <national at cc-ds.org<mailto:national at cc-ds.org>>; "ufpj-activist" <ufpj-activist at lists.mayfirst.org<mailto:ufpj-activist at lists.mayfirst.org>>
Sent: 10/11/2016 9:43:14 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [ufpj-activist] The election

My understanding is that there are degrees and varieties of psychopathy. The hallmark is willingness to sacrifice others and lack of remorse. Psychopaths can be charming, intelligent and seem like leaders. Thus they often rise to the top. I would argue that our systems (political and economic) reward and promote psychopaths.

Trump can act the psychopath in the scripted world of reality TV, but he’s too disorganized and insecure to really succeed.

When Clinton cackled over the brutal killing of Ghaddafi it looked like psychopathy to me.

Like I said, the system promotes psychopaths. Dick Cheney is one of the worst, at home in Washington DC and corporate board rooms.

I expect Clinton to become president and push for war with Russia. She’ll try to justify it with liberal rhetoric. She claims that climate change is her number one concern. If that is true, then hopefully it will stymie her war agenda.

Per Fagereng

From: Michael Eisenscher
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 7:50 PM
To: chuck woolery ; Per Fagereng ; David McReynolds ; Brussel, Morton K
Cc: Committees of Correspondence ; ufpj-activist
Subject: Re[2]: [ufpj-activist] The election

I doubt that any of us are clinically qualified to classify either of them psychologically but we certainly are qualified to speak about the likely impact of the policies they advocate.  Clinton may have her own personality disorders but to equate her with Trump makes it too easy to dismiss or trivialize her - unless you want to argue that an entire segment of the ruling class whose policies she advocates and on whose behalf she serves is psychologically deranged.  She is simply being true to her class interests.  The Donald, on the other hand, is quite obviously a very disturbed, unstable and psychologically damaged human being.  It may be clever but not very helpful to psychologically stereotype them - though I admit Trump offers a more compelling invitation to do so.  It is more useful to speak about what they actually do and stand for, which is not identical.  She is a political animal who quite obviously can be moved on some issues by a sufficiently powerful mass movement.  If people truly believe she is as big a nut case as Trump, it will be harder to mobilize them to confront her if she is elected. Real psychopaths are far less likely to succumb to popular pressure.

m

------ Original Message ------
From: "chuck woolery" <chuck at igc.org>
To: "Per Fagereng" <phantom at hevanet.com>; "David McReynolds" <davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com>; "Brussel, Morton K" <brussel at illinois.edu>
Cc: "Committees of Correspondence" <national at cc-ds.org>; "ufpj-activist" <ufpj-activist at lists.mayfirst.org>
Sent: 10/11/2016 7:28:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ufpj-activist] The election

Which is worse – an out-of-control psychopath or a psychopath in near-perfect control?

Profound!

From: ufpj-activist [mailto:ufpj-activist-bounces+chuck=igc.org at lists.mayfirst.org] On Behalf Of Per Fagereng
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2016 12:05 AM
To: David McReynolds; Brussel, Morton K
Cc: Committees of Correspondence; ufpj-activist
Subject: Re: [ufpj-activist] The election

I’m thinking that maybe Clinton is just as crazy as Trump, but in a different way. The late Daniel Singer once wrote in The Nation about
the Summer Fool and the Winter Fool. The Summer Fool wears a clown’s costume and talks craziness, while the Winter Fool wears a sober
coat and hat and speaks sensibly. But when the Winter Fool takes off the coat the clown costume is revealed and the Winter Fool quacks
crazily.

Which is worse – an out-of-control psychopath or a psychopath in near-perfect control?

Per Fagereng

From: David McReynolds
Sent: Sunday, October 9, 2016 10:44 AM
To: Brussel, Morton K
Cc: Committees of Correspondence ; ufpj-activist
Subject: Re: [ufpj-activist] The election

I agree, we are moving into a Cold War and we must prevent that. The old US Empire is dead but many in Washington have not adjusted to that. We see the same thing in the Middle East, where Iran, which has not attacked anyone in over a hundred years, simply wants to take its historic role as a force in the Middle East - and Netanyahu is fighting this new adjustment.
David

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu> wrote:
A well reasoned piece, except for the fact that we are already in a “new Cold War”, one likely not to be alleviated by a “new” administration.

—mkb

On Oct 9, 2016, at 12:36 AM, David McReynolds <davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 1:35 AM, David McReynolds <davidmcreynolds7 at gmail.com> wrote:
The Election -To my Edge Left list
(David  McReynolds)
On this Saturday evening, as I clear things in my small apartment  and so there is room for friends coming over on Sunday evening for the debate, the election has already been decided, with the release of the Trump tapes.

The GOP is in disarray, there is talk of asking Trump to withdraw (a month
before the election), perhaps to have Pence take his place. But it is too late, and the election will go forward with Trump facing a clear defeat by Hillary Clinton.
For one thing, leaving aside the monumental legal problems involved in replacing Donald Trump as the GOP candidate, the hard reality is that Trump would not go quietly and, if replaced, his supporters, who are fervent, would simply not turn up at the polls. If they cannot vote for Trump, it is unlikely they will vote at all (and certain they would not vote for Clinton).
Hillary will win by default, no matter what the GOP does now. There are things we do not yet know - will Pence, in hopes of leading the Republican ticket in 2020, withdraw from the ticket? What impact with the current fiasco have on the Senate races?
The real question is what will the Republican Party do now. The neo-cons support Clinton, and some of Trump's ideas actually made sense (though one never knew which of his ideas he was attached to). His willingness to reach a detente with Russia made much more sense than Clinton's possible drift to a new Cold War. His determination to end "nation building" was sound.
Will what is left of the Republican Party pick up on Trump's desire to rebuild our own country? (Trump was absolutely right that the blood and treasure expended in Iraq and Afghanistan was a monumental waste). The problem for the Republicans is that the alternatives to Trump, who may take control of the GOP after Trump's defeat, are, if anything, worse that Trump.  Cruz and Pence are both very hard right.

Trump's defeat will put an end to the ominous gathering of racists into the GOP, for the conservatives were correct - this was almost certainly the last hurrah for all the aging white males who sought to turn the clock back to the 1950's. (And if there was one thing quite clear about Trump, it is that he was a racist to the core, from the Central Park Five to his effort to question Obama's citizenship).
The one hope I see is that Hillary Clinton will not have a free hand - for, leaving aside the problems she will face with Congress, the American people are deeply tired of endless wars. And if we are stunned that Trump rose so high and exposed such a terrible hole in the American soul (as I listened to the evangelical Christians embrace Trump I had the feeling they have never actually read the New Testament), we also saw "that other America",which has always been there - the enormously powerful movement around Bernie Sanders.
We may see things much more clearly by the end of the debate tomorrow but it is clear enough already that Trump will remain the Republican nominee, and that he will be defeated in November.

-30 -

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