[Peace-discuss] [Peace] [sf-core] Against hysteria

[John W.]

On Wed, Jan 4, 2017 at 2:19 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

Belden—
>
> Certainly it’s right to ‘criticize both sides.’ I assume you would have
> done so on September 1, 1939, as well.
>
> (Those who are tempted not to, should see Nicholson Baker’s  “Human
> Smoke.”)
>
> But we’re citizens of only one side and (presumably) can affect what that
> side does: the war in Syria exists because Obama armed jihadists.
>
> Surely we should be calling (as AWARE does) for the withdrawal of all US
> troops, weapons, and bases from MENA.  Do you agree?
>
> The poets often get there first:
>


Unfortunately they're never the decision-makers.  :-(

Since there's no attribution, I presume this is your own composition,
Carl?  It's quite excellent!




>
> "...As the clever hopes expire
> Of a low dishonest decade
> Waves of anger and fear
> Circulate over the bright
> And darkened lands of the earth,
> Obsessing our private lives....
>
> "I and the public know
> What all schoolchildren learn,
> Those to whom evil is done
> Do evil in return.
>
> "Exiled Thucydides knew
> All that a speech can say
> About Democracy,
> And what dictators do,
> The elderly rubbish they talk
> To an apathetic grave;
> Analysed all in his book,
> The enlightenment driven away,
> The habit-forming pain,
> Mismanagement and grief:
> We must suffer them all again.
>
> "Into this neutral air
> Where blind skyscrapers use
> Their full height to proclaim
> The strength of Collective Man,
> Each language pours its vain
> Competitive excuse:
> But who can live for long
> In an euphoric dream;
> Out of the mirror they stare,
> Imperialism’s face
> And the international wrong...
>
> "All I have is a voice
> To undo the folded lie,
> The romantic lie in the brain
> Of the sensual man-in-the-street
> And the lie of Authority
> Whose buildings grope the sky:
> There is no such thing as the State
> And no one exists alone;
> Hunger allows no choice
> To the citizen or the police;
> We must love one another or die…”
>
> Regards, Carl
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 1:44 PM, Fields, A Belden <a-fields at illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I criticize both sides Mort.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Brussel, Morton K <brussel at illinois.edu>
> wrote:
>
> What do you know about the situation in Aleppo, Belden?  I suggest you
> look elsewhere than to the NYT and other main stream media. Perhaps even
> RN, horror of horrors, or Antiwar.com <http://antiwar.com/>, etc. .
> Yes the Russians have interests in not having radical Islamists taking
> over Syria, and were called in by the only legitimate government there,
> even if you don’t approve of it. Meanwhile the USA, Saudi Arabia, and
> friends, Israel too, have been supplying weapons, intelligence(?) and funds
> to the so-called rebels, many/most not even Syrians—instigating the
> conflict there. Regime change has long been on the table by the U.S.
> government for Syria, part of our hegemonic outlook.
> Your criticism is perverse.
>
> On Jan 4, 2017, at 12:30 PM, 'Fields, A Belden' a-fields at illinois.edu
> [sf-core] <sf-core-noreply at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
> Karl,
>
> I find it obscene when you say that the Russian air force was in Syria
> "legally," justifying the hellish nightmare that it unleashed upon the
> people of Aleppo.  This  was a war crime of incredible magnitude.  Your "
> anti-war" posture is pure hypocrisy. If other in AWARE share your view, the
> name should be changed.  You are neither anti-war nor anti-racist.  Drop
> the mask.
> Belden
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Peace [peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] on behalf of Carl G.
> Estabrook via Peace [peace at lists.chambana.net]
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 22, 2016 6:48 AM
> *To:* Debra Schrishuhn
> *Cc:* Peace Discuss; sf-core; Brussel, Morton K; peace;
> prairiegreens at lists.chambana.net; Occupy CU
> *Subject:* Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] Against hysteria
>
> Shouldn’t we pay attention to the policies the Trump administration will
> follow, more than to his obvious deficiencies of character?
>
> The Obama administration is. They’re so afraid Trump will reverse Obama's
> warmongering policies, they’re rushing to try to lock the new
> administration into their lethal practices.
>
> Example: Obama has waved a restriction on providing shoulder-launched
> surface-to-air missiles to the 'rebels’ in Syria (including al-Qaeda) - an
> obvious threat to the Russian air force (who, unlike the USAF, are in Syria
> legally). HRC wanted a no-fly zone, which she was told would lead to war
> with Russia; Obama is trying to use jihadists for that.
>
> The anti-war movement, of which AWARE is a part, should try to give an
> accurate account of the US government’s war-making, under this
> administration and the next.
>
> —CGE
>
>
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Debra Schrishuhn <deb.pdamerica at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Apparently, Trump's racism, xenophobia, and misogyny are true conservative
> values that you support? His intention to build a wall to keep brown people
> out of the US and his embrace of torture and extra-judicial killings don't
> bother you, Carl? His willingness to ignite trade wars and possibly hot
> wars with that military he plans to build up are OK? His lack of respect
> for fellow humans, his pathological tendency to lie or say whatever he
> thinks will advance him, get him attention -- these character traits are
> acceptable to you? Not to mention his graft, his bullying, his cruelty, his
> vindictiveness--these trait are acceptable in a US President or in any
> human being?
>
> That you embrace these odious qualities in another says a great deal about
> you.
>
> Debra
>
>
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