[Peace-discuss] Peace-discuss Digest, Vol 169, Issue 102

Wayne Jenne cwjenne at gmail.com
Wed Feb 14 16:20:56 UTC 2018 

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:33 AM <peace-discuss-request at lists.chambana.net>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: [Peace] Meeting place for AWARE (C G Estabrook)
>    2. Re: [Peace]  AWARE on the Air 2/13/18 (C G Estabrook)
>    3. Re: [Peace] Meeting place for AWARE (Karen Aram)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 08:03:18 -0600
> From: C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>, "Peace-discuss List
>         \(peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net\)"
>         <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Meeting place for AWARE
> Message-ID: <FF797443-0CE6-4482-9B26-314252874835 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Of course AWARE - and the entire peace movement - means to overthrow the
> government, if by ‘the government’ we mean its effective actions around the
> world, spreading war and immiseration.
>
>
> > On Feb 12, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > The suggestion that AWARE has any interest in overthrowing the
> government, is about as absurd as Democrats singing the “International” or
> being referred to as “leftists.”  They maybe “left" of the right wing, but
> thats as far as it goes.
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 12, 2018, at 10:28, John W. via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:50 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> AWARE’s Sunday night meeting (5-6pm) needs a new venue.
> >>
> >> Our congenial hosts at Coffee Connection in Urbana are closing up their
> operation in March.
> >>
> >> It’s been suggested we move to their related venue, 'Flying Machine
> Avionics' in Champaign <
> https://www.facebook.com/Flying-Machine-Avionics-1321317537993963/ <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FFlying-Machine-Avionics-1321317537993963%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a38a98150544198ced608d572468a55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636540569648718767&sdata=JgINkyeZ3%2FtpNRpjNaxPGx9139R3AvXEQSqRVbhaXOw%3D&reserved=0
> >>.
> >>
> >> Avionics is a pleasant coffee shop, but small - and no beer or wine.
> >>
> >> I have another suggestion: Harvest Market in Champaign <
> https://www.facebook.com/HarvestMarketChampaign/ <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FHarvestMarketChampaign%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a38a98150544198ced608d572468a55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636540569648718767&sdata=KspEEicYcGBByOLAFjg3Jz167Di%2BZWxGby7GNKZxjL8%3D&reserved=0>>
> - 2029 South Neil Street.
> >>
> >> A good coffee shop, beer & wine, and much room (even private, if we
> want) on the second floor. Also easy parking. And food.
> >>
> >> It’s new, spacious, and not crowded. AWAREists might want to take a
> look.
> >>
> >> I propose we meet there, beginning the first Sunday in March.
> >>
> >> We should be as comfortable as possible while overthrowing the
> government.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, that's what Fidel and Chairman Mao said.  ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Recall Marx and the Red Lion: <
> https://www.londonremembers.com/memorials/the-red-lion <
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.londonremembers.com%2Fmemorials%2Fthe-red-lion&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a38a98150544198ced608d572468a55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636540569648718767&sdata=z%2Fti4w5L2jphpge1lHubFUXNBejc8LAYxQ0jDzoYvyE%3D&reserved=0
> >>.
> >>
> >> Solidarity and salubrity, CGE
> >>
> >>  <
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> >> Peace mailing list
> >> Peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:Peace at lists.chambana.net>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 08:20:08 -0600
> From: C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> To: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "peace-discuss at anti-war.net" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, peace
>         <peace at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace]  AWARE on the Air 2/13/18
> Message-ID: <6BF53444-D14D-4488-AFB6-138B9A3E27F0 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> For a serious discussion of US policy toward the DPRK, I read the
> following on AWARE on the Air:
>
> <
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/02/06/if-theres-a-war-in-korea-blame-trump/
> >.
>
> "Brainwashed Americans believe that Kim Jong-un is responsible for the
> confrontation between Pyongyang and Washington, but nothing could be
> further from the truth. The real problem is not Kim’s nuclear weapons but
> Washington’s 65 year-long military occupation that continues to reinforce a
> political solution that was arbitrarily imposed on a sovereign nation in
> order to split the country in two, install a puppet regime in the south,
> establish a permanent military presence to defend US commercial interests,
> and maintain control of a strategically-located territory that is a
> critical part of Washington’s plan to encircle Russia and China to remain
> the dominant global power throughout the century…"
>
> —CGE
>
> > On Feb 14, 2018, at 7:25 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >
> > No, that was not meant for publication by you. If I had been on the
> program, I might have read it, I would have discussed it, but you had no
> permission to use my statement made to a few friends who couldn’t or
> wouldn’t make it to the program.
> >
> > My having to defend Bob Naiman is not something I like doing, but one
> must give credit where credit is due. He made it clear that the US is
> responsible for the policies provoking war with N.K. He did not blame
> Trump. He made it clear that its US foreign policy that began with Obama,
> which is responsible for the situation, and beginning with the war in Korea
> in the 50’s.
> >
> > There is no hope for an anti-war movement in our town, a real anti-war
> movement in a town that is capable of bringing out thousands, but AWARE
> can’t get beyond 13 people, on good days, unless we stop playing the blame
> game. That is “the Democrats did it.” anymore than those who assume all
> began with Trump and the Republicans.
> >
> > Negativity towards everyone who doesn’t agree with us, is not conducive
> to uniting in common cause, or ending wars. It takes more than just
> “talking” about war to end it.
> >
> >> On Feb 14, 2018, at 05:18, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Karen—
> >>
> >> That was your public account of the panel, which I hoped you’d present
> on the tv program.
> >>
> >> I think we should be concerned that soi-disant liberals are making such
> efforts to declare what can’t be said.
> >>
> >> Regards, CGE
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Feb 14, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Carl
> >>>
> >>> Did I give you permission to read my statement, made to a couple
> friends in relation to the “Panel on Women” against war recently?
> >>>
> >>> No, I did not. Your as usual negativity towards everyone in the
> community coming under the banner of “Democrat” is likely one of the
> reasons your “we” in relation to AWARE on the “Air” is now only “you.”
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 13, 2018, at 17:51, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek9tnlk1Dxs
> >>>>
> >>>> Topics include
> >>>>
> >>>> ~ A shameful attempt by local Democrats to co-opt anti-war sentiment
> re Korea
> >>>>
> >>>> ~ FOA (Friend of AWARE) Paul Street destroys the second greatest
> deleterious myth in US politics
> >>>>
> >>>> ###
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Peace mailing list
> > Peace at lists.chambana.net
> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 14:32:53 +0000
> From: Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
> To: C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> Cc: "John W." <jbw292002 at gmail.com>, "Peace-discuss List
>         \(peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net\)"
>         <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] [Peace] Meeting place for AWARE
> Message-ID:
>         <
> SN1PR08MB1677607E09E4B6CD6CD93475A3F50 at SN1PR08MB1677.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> It’s not going to happen unless we unite with other anti-war groups, but
> as you say in reference to the USG: they pit one against the other,” but it
> appears to occur within the “Left,” and amongst various anti war groups, to
> such an extent, it will likely never happen.
>
> As to your new coffee shop, sorry, too far for me, and its in a
> supermarket, not very appealing.  Though I haven’t been there, only to the
> supermarket, so I shouldn’t critique. Maybe you’ll attract some newcomers,
> from that area, that would be nice.
>
> On Feb 14, 2018, at 06:03, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com<mailto:
> cgestabrook at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Of course AWARE - and the entire peace movement - means to overthrow the
> government, if by ‘the government’ we mean its effective actions around the
> world, spreading war and immiseration.
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018, at 12:33 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:
> karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> The suggestion that AWARE has any interest in overthrowing the government,
> is about as absurd as Democrats singing the “International” or being
> referred to as “leftists.”  They maybe “left" of the right wing, but thats
> as far as it goes.
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018, at 10:28, John W. via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net
> <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:50 PM, C G Estabrook via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>
> AWARE’s Sunday night meeting (5-6pm) needs a new venue.
>
> Our congenial hosts at Coffee Connection in Urbana are closing up their
> operation in March.
>
> It’s been suggested we move to their related venue, 'Flying Machine
> Avionics' in Champaign <
> https://www.facebook.com/Flying-Machine-Avionics-1321317537993963/<
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FFlying-Machine-Avionics-1321317537993963%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a38a98150544198ced608d572468a55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636540569648718767&sdata=JgINkyeZ3%2FtpNRpjNaxPGx9139R3AvXEQSqRVbhaXOw%3D&reserved=0
> >>.
>
> Avionics is a pleasant coffee shop, but small - and no beer or wine.
>
> I have another suggestion: Harvest Market in Champaign <
> https://www.facebook.com/HarvestMarketChampaign/<
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FHarvestMarketChampaign%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a38a98150544198ced608d572468a55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636540569648718767&sdata=KspEEicYcGBByOLAFjg3Jz167Di%2BZWxGby7GNKZxjL8%3D&reserved=0>>
> - 2029 South Neil Street.
>
> A good coffee shop, beer & wine, and much room (even private, if we want)
> on the second floor. Also easy parking. And food.
>
> It’s new, spacious, and not crowded. AWAREists might want to take a look.
>
> I propose we meet there, beginning the first Sunday in March.
>
> We should be as comfortable as possible while overthrowing the government.
>
>
> Yes, that's what Fidel and Chairman Mao said.  ;-)
>
>
>
> Recall Marx and the Red Lion: <
> https://www.londonremembers.com/memorials/the-red-lion<
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.londonremembers.com%2Fmemorials%2Fthe-red-lion&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8a38a98150544198ced608d572468a55%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636540569648718767&sdata=z%2Fti4w5L2jphpge1lHubFUXNBejc8LAYxQ0jDzoYvyE%3D&reserved=0
> >>.
>
> Solidarity and salubrity, CGE
>
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