[Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on yesterdays News from Neptune

Sun Jul 1 22:24:23 UTC 2018

Well, somehow he got himself elected to Congress, which is more than any of
us can say about ourselves.

Not only that, he defeated a Democratic incumbent in a primary.

That doesn't seem like a bad start.

Robert Naiman
Policy Director
Just Foreign Policy
www.justforeignpolicy.org
naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
(202) 448-2898 x1

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 3:08 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> At the risk of being irreverent, I don't know much about Khanna other than
> the recent interviews on TRNN; but I hope he can develop some charisma and
> personality, which might be necessary to effectively put forth a dissident
> agenda, if that in fact is what he wants to do.
>
> DG
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 1:48 PM Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> There are institutions to hold them to account on some of their domestic
>> economic policy stances. There's the AFL-CIO, for example. If you look at
>> the last House vote on raising the minimum wage, every Democrat voted for
>> it. If you look at the House vote on fast track trade negotiating authority
>> for the TPP, almost every House Democrat voted against it, even though that
>> was a vote against Obama, even though they hadn't finished negotiating the
>> deal yet and the text was not public. But everyone could see where it was
>> going. Most House Democrats listen to the AFL-CIO on domestic economic
>> policy, including on trade policy, even against a Democratic President.
>>
>> Bill Clinton broke free of the AFL-CIO on trade at the presidential
>> level. And since then, up until the present, there hasn't been a Democratic
>> presidential nominee who didn't accept the Bill Clinton framework on trade.
>> This is a key reason that Trump got elected. A bunch of working class
>> Democrats in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania didn't trust Hillary on
>> trade so they voted for Trump to kill the TPP dead. I can't say I blame
>> them for not trusting Hillary on trade. The AFL-CIO claimed after the
>> election that they had the votes in the House to kill the TPP in the lame
>> duck session after the election. I'm not sure that I believe that. It's not
>> what the AFL-CIO was saying before the election. I'm pretty sure that was a
>> lie to cover up the AFL-CIO's role in the debacle. The AFL-CIO could have
>> killed the TPP at the Democratic Convention. The Sanders forces had an
>> amendment to the platform against the TPP, which amendment was supported by
>> the Hillary labor delegates. But Obama threatened the pro-Hillary labor
>> delegates, saying: if you amend the platform to oppose the TPP, I won't
>> campaign for Hillary. The pro-Hillary labor leaders blinked. And this left
>> a lot of people with the impression that if Hillary was elected, Obama was
>> going to push the TPP through in the lame duck and enough Democrats would
>> go along to make it happen.
>>
>> But regardless of all that, regardless of the problems with the AFL-CIO,
>> etc., we have nothing like the AFL-CIO on foreign policy, war and peace,
>> nothing close, nothing in the same league, nothing organized at all. Just a
>> collection of NGOs like Win Without War which are accountable to no-one
>> except their funders and which are very close to the House Democratic
>> leadership, especially Nancy Pelosi. And that's why we haven't been able to
>> get a vote in the House so far on getting the U.S. out of the
>> unconstitutional Saudi war in Yemen. That's why I'm trying to get Ro Khanna
>> to challenge Nancy Pelosi for the House Democratic leadership. So we can
>> get votes in the House on war and peace.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Robert Naiman
>> Policy Director
>> Just Foreign Policy
>> www.justforeignpolicy.org
>> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>> (202) 448-2898 x1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:51 PM, Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On Jul 1, 2018, at 12:40 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Carl, Your point is fantastic that there are no institutions to hold
>>> so-called progressives or so-called liberals to any of their foreign or
>>> domestic policy stances once elected. My Tea Party point, as I am sure you
>>> understand,  is that there are no institutions to hold so-called
>>> conservatives to their party policies either, once elected. If there were,
>>> we would have a balanced budget and a decreasing deficit. Facts being
>>> facts,  America has only One Party, no matter what label or geographic
>>> direction it gives itself to attempt to gaslight the gullible.
>>> >
>>> > That old saying, that a problem cannot be solved at the level of the
>>> mindset that created the problem in the first place, must be true here. The
>>> One Party that serves its education-prison- military-industrial corporate
>>> owners is the REAL master player of Identity Politics: splitting un-AWARE
>>> Americans first into Republicans & Democrats, and then into Libertarians,
>>> Conservatives, Christians, Deplorables, Liberals, the Left, Anti-.fa,
>>> millenniels, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
>>> >
>>> > Conservative, liberal, left and right, as you and Counterpunch have
>>> demonstrated, no longer mean what the words meant in years past. Those few
>>> Americans who may believe any of the baloney being served us under those
>>> labels are beyond convincing or worth discussing at this point. They will
>>> just have to be dragged along as the rest of us change history.  A sports
>>> "us" vs. "them" mentality will bury all of us if the "us" and "them" remain
>>> fake Democrats & Republicans, liberals or conservatives. The only "us" that
>>> means anything are the 99% and the only "them" that means anything are the
>>> 8, 000 people in the world with half the world's wealth. The 1500
>>> billionaires . The alphabet agencies & the oil companies. I may not know
>>> all the "thems" - I sure know the "us".
>>> >
>>> > I had stopped watching "Real Time with Bill Maher" because he was such
>>> a staunch Hillary supporter. However, if you had a chance to catch his show
>>> last Friday, 6/29/18, it was interesting. Guest  Lawrence Wilkerson,
>>> debunking Russiagate, and Bill and Michael Moore begging Americans to get
>>> out in the streets against fascism. Michael Moore was nearly crying. There
>>> was such a sense of urgency and that things have gone too far.
>>> >
>>> > Needless to say- not a Happy 4th .
>>> > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>> >
>>> > ------ Original message------
>>> > From: Carl G. Estabrook
>>> > Date: Sun, Jul 1, 2018 12:54 AM
>>> > To: bjornsona at ameritech.net;
>>> > Cc: Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss;Karen Aram;Robert
>>> Naiman;peace-discuss at anti-war.net;
>>> > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on yesterdays
>>> News from Neptune
>>> >
>>> > https://www.blackagendareport.com/magical-thinking-vs-sober-
>>> analysis-ocasio-cortez-victory-ny
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "In my previous piece and Facebook posts I never touched on how
>>> socialist Ocasio-Cortez is or isn't nor on her foreign policy stands if she
>>> has any, which Berniecrats frequently don't, something that ought to make
>>> us a little uneasy. Bernie Sanders calls himself a socialist too, just with
>>> an imperialist foreign policy. I did say that progressive candidates and
>>> officeholders do sometimes flip, a little at a time or all at once, and
>>> when they do we have no institutions with which to punish them. "Feet to
>>> the fire" and "holding them accountable" are actually the phrases of
>>> magical thinkers because no means have yet been devised which enable the
>>> left to do those things.
>>> >
>>> > "I got in trouble for observing that while we can elect progressives
>>> from time to time we cannot compel them to remain that way. Until we figure
>>> out how to build institutions that can, we are at the mercy of their
>>> individual moral and political compasses. The need to develop left
>>> institutions to which progressive candidates can be held responsible is an
>>> acute one, which the Nation in its slavish devotion to the Democratic party
>>> predictably ignores. Noting this truth got me accused of being a petty,
>>> lazy purist and ultraleftist. Oh well. Sober analysis may not be what some
>>> people wanna hear at a victory party where everybody’s popping champagne
>>> corks, dancing the electric slide and toasting the universal lessons of the
>>> Ocasio-Cortez victory without the bother of real analysis…"
>>> >
>>> > —CGE
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > On Jun 30, 2018, at 9:04 PM, bjornsona--- via Peace-discuss
>>> >  wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > That Everyman article could be written exactly the same way 10 years
>>> ago to Tea Party Republicans.  Change "Democrat- change it to R Republican.
>>> > >
>>> > > Sent from my LG Phoenix 2, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>> > >
>>> > > ------ Original message------
>>> > > From: Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss
>>> > > Date: Sat, Jun 30, 2018 6:11 PM
>>> > > To: Karen Aram;
>>> > > Cc: Robert Naiman
>>> > ;peace-discuss at anti-war.net
>>> > ;Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss;
>>> > > Subject:Re: [Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on yesterdays
>>> News from Neptune
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > https://americaneveryman.com/2018/06/30/ajamu-baraka-
>>> pushes-dementer-with-the-ocasio-cortez-placebo-my-
>>> position-statement-on-ocasio-cortez/
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > It’s unclear where Ocasio is herself - but not the Democratic party.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >> On Jun 30, 2018, at 5:43 PM, Karen Aram
>>> >  wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Very good, thank you Stuart. Let’s all keep our fingers crossed
>>> that she is able to stand by her declarations. Anything David Swanson has
>>> to say is good enough for me.
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> On Jun 30, 2018, at 10:38, stuartnlevy
>>> >  wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> It is there right now.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The
>>> > antiwar.com
>>> >  thread quotes Ocasio on June 27th that it hadn't been deliberately
>>> removed, and she was looking into it.  So she did, and the statement is
>>> there.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I haven't compared it with the previous version, but David Swanson
>>> says it is both lengthened and improved.  He supports it and urges his
>>> readers to let her know they do too.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>  -- Stuart
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> -------- Original message --------
>>> > >>> From: "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss"
>>> >
>>> > >>> Date: 6/30/18 11:15 (GMT-06:00)
>>> > >>> To: Robert Naiman
>>> > , peace-discuss at anti-war.net
>>> >
>>> > >>> Cc: peace
>>> > , "Carl G. Estabrook via Peace-discuss" , Karen Aram
>>> >
>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] In reference to comments on
>>> yesterdays News from Neptune
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> This is the piece removed from her website, wasn’t it? Has it been
>>> put back?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>> On Jun 30, 2018, at 9:30 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss
>>> >  wrote:
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > https://ocasio2018.com/issues
>>> >
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> [...]
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> A Peace Economy
>>> > >>>> Since the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the United States has
>>> entangled itself in war and occupation throughout the Middle East and North
>>> Africa. As of 2018, we are currently involved in military action in Libya,
>>> Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan, and Somalia. Hundreds of
>>> thousands of civilians in these countries have been killed either as
>>> collateral damage from American strikes or from the instability caused by
>>> U.S. interventions. Millions more have fled their broken countries,
>>> contributing to the global refugee crisis.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> This continued action damages America’s legitimacy as a force for
>>> good, creates new generations of potential terrorists, and erodes American
>>> prosperity. In times when we’re told that there’s not enough money,
>>> Republicans and corporate Democrats seem to find the cash to fund a $1.1
>>> trillion fighter jet program or a $1.7 trillion-dollar nuclear weapon
>>> “modernization” program. The costs are extreme: the Pentagon’s budget for
>>> 2018 is $700 billion dollars: to continue fighting an endless War on Terror
>>> and refighting the Cold War with a new arms race that nobody can win.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> According to the Constitution, the right to declare war belongs
>>> to the legislative body, and yet many of these global acts of aggression
>>> have never once been voted on by Congress. In some cases, we've even acted
>>> unilaterally, without the backing of the United Nations.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> America should not be in the business of destabilizing countries.
>>> While we may see ourselves as liberators, the world increasingly views us
>>> as occupiers and aggressors. Alexandria believes that we must end the
>>> "forever war" by bringing our troops home, and ending the air strikes that
>>> perpetuate the cycle of terrorism throughout the world.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> By bringing our troops home, we can begin to heal the wounds
>>> we're opening by continuing military engagement. We can begin to repair our
>>> image. We can reunite military families, separated by repeated deployments.
>>> We can become stronger by building stronger diplomatic and economic ties,
>>> and by saving our armed forces only for when they're truly needed.
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> [...]
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Robert Naiman
>>> > >>>> Policy Director
>>> > >>>> Just Foreign Policy
>>> > >>>>
>>> > www.justforeignpolicy.org
>>> >
>>> > >>>>
>>> >  naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
>>> >
>>> > >>>>
>>> > (202) 448-2898
>>> >  x1
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 8:32 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss
>>> >  wrote:
>>> > >>>>
>>> > https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2018/06/28/as-election-day-
>>> approached-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-removed-antiwar-
>>> foreign-policy-section-from-her-we
>>> >
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> > >>>>
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>>> >
>>> > >>>>
>>> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>>> >
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> >
>>> > >>>>
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>>> >
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>
>>> > >
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>>> >
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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