[Peace-discuss] [Peace] "...thinking makes it so"
Mark Morenz-Harbinger
marketype at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 4 23:51:15 UTC 2018
Wason, you're so full of ****. I haven't forgotten when you (obliquely, I'll admit, but nevertheless) threatened me and my kids in an exchange on the WEFT listservs when it was going through its turmoil. [For the record, that chaos was caused entirely by non-violent means...fractures on the left are mostly caused by moles, has been my observation]
While it is ballsy that you hover on these "peace" and "peace-discuss" lists, it is unfortunate that anyone on those lists gives you any credence.
This is an old email that I seldom use, but when I saw this-- oh brother. I will now take the time to unsubscribe.
_Mark
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 7/4/18, John W. via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Peace] [Peace-discuss] "...thinking makes it so"
To: "Karen Aram" <karenaram at hotmail.com>
Cc: "peace" <peace at lists.chambana.net>, "Peace Discuss" <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>
Date: Wednesday, July 4, 2018, 1:04 PM
I would add that Malcolm X, whom we
thought of and still think of today as being much more
"militant" than MLK, really didn't do anything
more than preach the necessity, at times, of Black
self-defense. He didn't foment violence for the sake
of disruption. Nor, I might add further, did the Black
Panthers or Stokely Carmichael or H. Rap Brown or any of the
other more "militant" Black leaders of the
time.
John Wason
again
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 2:58
PM, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com>
wrote:
If this was on
Facebook I would "Like" it, Karen. Absolutely
right.
John
Wason
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 9:53
AM, Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net>
wrote:
Anti-fa does support violence, in that its “planned
fight back” its “planned defensive attacks,” as if
military or police. It creates chaos, and chaos leads to
violence and disintegration of the left, thus with chaos the
government, and ruling
elite wins. There are historical examples proving
this.
One does not have to be a pacifist, one does not need
to oppose uprisings, but chaos, leads to violence and
disintegration of the left.
No movement/revolution using violence has ever
succeeded. MLK knew this, perhaps he couldn’t have
accomplished what he did without the threat of Malcolm X,
but Malcolm would never have been able to accomplish what
MLK did.
Only civil resistance succeeds.
On Jul 4, 2018, at 06:53, Harry Mickalide via Peace
<peace at lists.chambana.net>
wrote:
It's not that Antifa doesn't expect
punishment. It's that they
risk punishment in order to defend us and fight
fascism.
In fact, if we're going to compare the difference
between thought and action, we here on the Internet are
thinking about creating a just world, while people
in Antifa are in the streets actually
doing it.
Here is an article where multiple people thank Antifa
for defending them from Nazis.
http://www.slate.com/articles/
news_and_politics/politics/201
7/08/what_the_alt_left_was_act
ually_doing_in_charlottesville .html
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at
11:06 PM, David Green via Peace
<peace at lists.chambana.net>
wrote:
I'm not sure of the precise origin of the
notion of "hate crimes" in the law in our own
country, if there is such an origin; but my sense--perhaps
more directly applicable to European and Canadian laws that
directly monitor speech--has
long been that what Norman Finkelstein has called the
"Holocaust Industry" contributed to the
development of such a notion, by equating the actuality of
the Holocaust, anti-semitic beliefs, and criticism of
Israel's very real crimes.
DG
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 9:47 PM C G Estabrook
<cgestabrook at gmail.com>
wrote:
It might mean
(a) opinion constitutes moral worth - "it’s
good/evil if you think it is”; or
(b) opinion misinterprets moral worth - "it’s
good, but you mistakenly think it evil.”
HAMLET, 2.2===========================
======================
• Hamlet. ... What
news ?
• Rosencrantz. None,
my lord, but that the world's grown honest.
• Hamlet. Then is
doomsday near! But your news is not true. Let me
question more in particular. What have you, my good
friends,
deserved at the hands of Fortune that she sends you to
prison
hither?
•
Guildenstern. Prison, my lord?
•
Hamlet. Denmark's a prison.
• Rosencrantz. Then
is the world one.
• Hamlet. A goodly
one; in which there are many confines, wards, and
dungeons, Denmark being one o' th' worst.
• Rosencrantz. We
think not so, my lord.
• Hamlet. Why, then
'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good
or bad but thinking makes it so. To me it is a prison.
• Rosencrantz. Why,
then your ambition makes it one. 'Tis too narrow for
your
mind.
• Hamlet. O God, I
could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a
king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad
dreams.
•
Guildenstern. Which dreams indeed are ambition; for the
very substance of
the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.
• Hamlet. A dream
itself is but a shadow.
•
Rosencrantz. Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and
light a quality that
it is but a shadow's shadow.
• Hamlet. Then are
our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and
outstretch'd
heroes the beggars' shadows. Shall we to th' court?
for, by my
fay, I cannot reason.
==============================
===========================
On Jul 3, 2018, at 9:08 PM, David Green via Peace
<peace at lists.chambana.net>
wrote:
How is the line from Hamlet
misunderstood?
On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 6:57 PM C G Estabrook
via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.
net> wrote:
One of the most misunderstood lines in Shakespeare is
Hamlet’s “...there is nothing either good or bad, but
thinking makes it so.”
Here a FOA (Friend of AWARE) brilliantly applies it to
current US politics (h/t K. Aram):
"Today I had two discussions, one with people
advocating hate crime laws, and another with people
defending Antifa, and it occurred to me that they were
pretty much the same people.
"Hate crime laws are actually thought crime laws, in
that they take what is already a crime, and add years to the
sentence if the perp was thinking bad thoughts when they
committed the crime.
"Antifas are people who commit crimes, and expect to go
unpunished at all, because they were thinking good thoughts
when they committed the crime.
"This is magical thinking, the idea that thoughts are
more important than reality. This is very American, since we
have had multiple Think Yourself Rich fads, from Napoleon
Hill to Oprah. And we are earnestly told that having a
president who 'believes' in climate
change is more important than actual policy changes. And,
of course, the latest fad in which you can think yourself
right into the opposite sex. (And not in the old 'think
yourself irresistible' way.)
"I think I'll just be over here, in the corner,
visualizing peace.” --Paula
Densnow
______________________________
_________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mai
lman/listinfo/peace
_______________________________________________
Peace mailing list
Peace at lists.chambana.net
https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace
-----Inline Attachment Follows-----
More information about the Peace-discuss
mailing list