[Peace-discuss] Fwd: My perspective on Tariq Ali's "talk" at the Levi Center last evening.

Sat Mar 31 14:28:41 UTC 2018

In addition to my comments below: I would like to touch on “India.” Tariq Ali referred to President Modi’s statement in reference to their religion being 2,000 years old, and if I heard correctly, referred to the Indian/Hindu religion as being “primitive.”

I would have preferred to hear him reference President Modi not just supporting but encouraging violence against Muslims, as well as anyone who doesn’t conform, including artists, journalists, writers, etc.

This former British colony has left a legacy of good schools, English language, a parliamentary democracy based upon British law, providing the west with many highly skilled people.

For many years I engaged in comparisons of India to China, by those in the private sector, given those nations were still in the process of development. Both have large populations, land mass and are nuclear powers. Having lived in China, with their major cities as developed as any western city in Europe or the US, and a transportation system far above that of any in the West. I found Mumbai, formerly Bombay, the business center of India, to be as undeveloped as any poor underdeveloped nation anywhere in Asia, with its poor infrastructure, treatment of employees, women and the poor, being worse than any I’ve seen anywhere in the developing world.

The growing inequality of both China and India, is continuing at a rapid rate, however India’s inequality has been much more rapid than that of China.

India has many languages and religions, preventing unification. Most of all, they have a caste system preventing any upward mobility of the poor, this misuse of human resources alone prevents the nation from joining the developed world.

Yet we hear very little, of fear related to the Indian dictatorship, as we do in respect to China, in spite of the most dangerous situation on the border of Kashmir with Pakistan, both nuclear armed nations.

I suspect there is little concern that India will ever be competition for the US, and as our proxy in Asia, we are pleased to continue to support such a dictatorship as it is, with their "so called democracy.”

From: Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>>
Subject: [Peace-discuss] My perspective on Tariq Ali's "talk" at the Levi Center last evening.

My reaction or critique, not a summary of Tariq Ali’s talk last evening, welcoming comments for discussion:

Though I wrote this immediately for Carl and David Green, last evening based upon memory, as I did not take notes, I have decided now to post it on the Peace Discuss List for others to comment on. I don’t like being negative of a man I have great respect for, when he has no opportunity to respond and defend. I do respect Tariq Ali.

He covered the history of USG imperialism, well. However there was little focus on “where do we go from here.” Perhaps my expectations were too high, leading to my disappointment.

He does see the US in decline due to our imperialism, and sees us as in the last stages of our imperialism. He refers to China’s success as a capitalist nation, and the new century as the century of China, and Asia.

I was disappointed when he adamantly stated that the US decline is “ not irreversible," somehow assuming the technology creation on the west coast is a hopeful sign. I don’t see how that is supposed to help the working class across the nation, especially in the rust belt. Nor do I see what is taking place in Silicon Valley, as having anything to do with curbing US wars of imperialism. In fact, I believe it may support it, by working closely with the USG.

 Tariq dismissed fear of nuclear war, as “ no one being that insane.” He made no reference to USG foreign policy for perpetual non nuclear war either. No reference was made to US provocations of China with our battle ships in the South China Sea, recent tariffs, or Nato on the borders of China.

Tariq, though critical of both the Democrat and Republican Party’s, referring to Hilary with her statement “we came, we saw, he died.” as a moral “new low” and the reason people stayed home, and gave us Trump, pointing up the fact, that in spite of her behavior, she was still the candidate chosen by the Democrat Party. His reference to Trump as a “shit hole," makes his point there. He laughed at russiagate.

Nonetheless he appears to be too confident, that electoral politics are important, saying “its what we have.”
Perhaps because he saw the rise of Corbyn in England, which is very positive. However, any suggestion of that happening in the US is questionable. He never mentioned the problems we face with mainstream propaganda, corporate ownership of the US government, and the control by our corporations.

He does refer to local elections being important and “having a few socialists in Congress talking with others would be progress, unless they get bought off by AIPAC,” his final statement, which brought quite an applause.

He said, when revolutions occur, people have to be prepared to die, I agree wholeheartedly with that statement, especially with our militarized police.

He made the point that due to China’s success in business due to capitalism, this is the century of China. I hear from too many on the “Left” this statement made, with a sense of dread. I think too many are concerned that based upon China’s “capitalism” they too will become imperialistic once they reach that stage which many think is near. While this maybe true, it should not be the concern of the American people. The same people that seem unconcerned about our own imperialist wars against others.

While the inequality in China is great, nonetheless the “working class” or middle class is still doing well, that doesn’t negate the poverty and treatment of the poor or the “migrant workers” there. However, if one compares it to the US in the sixties, one can see that the working class at that time here, was not yet prepared for loss of jobs, and impoverishment that came about. So I don’t think China is anywhere close to where the US is today in relation to poverty and austerity, I think they are in the same stage as the US was in the fifty’s and sixty’s.

I could be wrong, but the assumption that China will become imperialist just like the US maybe correct based upon Marxian analysis, but that negates the culture and history of China, which is no where near that of the US.
We began as a nation, by committing genocide against the original inhabitants to occupy this land. We used slavery to develop, and have continued unabated to destroy nations and people. This cannot be said about China, in spite of whatever flaws they may possess.

Referring to China negatively implying imperialism on their part, in this context contributes to the fear and alienation, that supports the USG Oligarchs in their pursuit of control of China, further propagandizing our need for “defense” against others. The same goals for which we now have russiagate.

Tariq supports children taking to the streets to “fight the NRA” but doesn’t see the point in mass movements of people taking to the streets to confront the USG. He sees the students as being a link in a chain of progress, just as the original feminists contribute to the feminists of today, ensuring that not all is forgotten.

He says, the US soldiers of Vietnam, in 72, had a real impact on the antiwar movement, as well as the anti-war protestors in the streets, making reference to the Vietnamese now having a museum to US war protestors in Vietnam, it was announced about two weeks ago.

His reference to the US losing the war, being quite a blow to the US imperialists, which is reference to our military loss. This is why the Reagan Administration began their interventions in South America covertly. He briefly covers some of this.

He makes a good point in respect to Portugal, the revolution in “74” the revolt of the soldiers against their government going to fight in foreign nations, and the fact that the revolution brought together the various socialist organizations to “ talk." This was a phenomenal accomplishment, my words not his. However, they listened to rhetoric in relation to no privatization, dictatorship, desires for democracy, with all agreeing and embracing the narrative.  However, because they failed to organize from the ground up, soviets or councils of the people, they ended up with a dictatorship of the proletariat.  A lesson to be learned.

 The warning on this topic is for those who think once you have a revolution, a successful one, even if a bloodless one, if you haven’t organized with a plan and preparation in advance, as to how to prevent a dictatorship, organizing from the bottom up, it will be a lost cause.
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