[Peace-discuss] Fwd: My perspective on Tariq Ali's "talk" at the Levi Center last evening.

[David Green]

And just as Carl pointed out on the program yesterday, regarding the
"fascist" tendencies of Hungary and Poland, which support the U.S. and
NATO, one can also look to two other countries with "fascist" tendencies,
India and Israel, who have become BFFs in the context of their willingness
to promote the USFP agenda and accompanying quid pro quos re Palestine,
Kashmir, etc.

DG

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 9:28 AM, Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> In addition to my comments below: I would like to touch on “India.” Tariq
> Ali referred to President Modi’s statement in reference to their religion
> being 2,000 years old, and if I heard correctly, referred to the
> Indian/Hindu religion as being “primitive.”
>
> I would have preferred to hear him reference President Modi not just
> supporting but encouraging violence against Muslims, as well as anyone who
> doesn’t conform, including artists, journalists, writers, etc.
>
> This former British colony has left a legacy of good schools, English
> language, a parliamentary democracy based upon British law, providing the
> west with many highly skilled people.
>
> For many years I engaged in comparisons of India to China, by those in the
> private sector, given those nations were still in the process of
> development. Both have large populations, land mass and are nuclear powers.
> Having lived in China, with their major cities as developed as any western
> city in Europe or the US, and a transportation system far above that of any
> in the West. I found Mumbai, formerly Bombay, the business center of India,
> to be as undeveloped as any poor underdeveloped nation anywhere in Asia,
> with its poor infrastructure, treatment of employees, women and the poor,
> being worse than any I’ve seen anywhere in the developing world.
>
> The growing inequality of both China and India, is continuing at a rapid
> rate, however India’s inequality has been much more rapid than that of
> China.
>
> India has many languages and religions, preventing unification. Most of
> all, they have a caste system preventing any upward mobility of the poor,
> this misuse of human resources alone prevents the nation from joining the
> developed world.
>
> Yet we hear very little, of fear related to the Indian dictatorship, as we
> do in respect to China, in spite of the most dangerous situation on the
> border of Kashmir with Pakistan, both nuclear armed nations.
>
> I suspect there is little concern that India will ever be competition for
> the US, and as our proxy in Asia, we are pleased to continue to support
> such a dictatorship as it is, with their "so called democracy.”
>
>
> *From: *Karen Aram via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> *Subject: **[Peace-discuss] My perspective on Tariq Ali's "talk" at the
> Levi Center last evening.*
>
>
>
> My reaction or critique, not a summary of Tariq Ali’s talk last evening,
> welcoming comments for discussion:
>
> Though I wrote this immediately for Carl and David Green, last evening
> based upon memory, as I did not take notes, I have decided now to post it
> on the Peace Discuss List for others to comment on. I don’t like being
> negative of a man I have great respect for, when he has no opportunity to
> respond and defend. I do respect Tariq Ali.
>
>
> He covered the history of USG imperialism, well. However there was little
> focus on “where do we go from here.” Perhaps my expectations were too high,
> leading to my disappointment.
>
>
> He does see the US in decline due to our imperialism, and sees us as in
> the last stages of our imperialism. He refers to China’s success as a
> capitalist nation, and the new century as the century of China, and Asia.
>
> I was disappointed when he adamantly stated that the US decline is “ not
> irreversible," somehow assuming the technology creation on the west coast
> is a hopeful sign. I don’t see how that is supposed to help the working
> class across the nation, especially in the rust belt. Nor do I see what is
> taking place in Silicon Valley, as having anything to do with curbing US
> wars of imperialism. In fact, I believe it may support it, by working
> closely with the USG.
>
>
>  Tariq dismissed fear of nuclear war, as “ no one being that insane.” He
> made no reference to USG foreign policy for perpetual non nuclear war
> either. No reference was made to US provocations of China with our battle
> ships in the South China Sea, recent tariffs, or Nato on the borders of
> China.
>
>
>
> Tariq, though critical of both the Democrat and Republican Party’s,
> referring to Hilary with her statement “we came, we saw, he died.” as a
> moral “new low” and the reason people stayed home, and gave us Trump,
> pointing up the fact, that in spite of her behavior, she was still the
> candidate chosen by the Democrat Party. His reference to Trump as a “shit
> hole," makes his point there. He laughed at russiagate.
>
> Nonetheless he appears to be too confident, that electoral politics are
> important, saying “its what we have.”
> Perhaps because he saw the rise of Corbyn in England, which is very
> positive. However, any suggestion of that happening in the US is
> questionable. He never mentioned the problems we face with mainstream
> propaganda, corporate ownership of the US government, and the control by
> our corporations.
>
> He does refer to local elections being important and “having a few
> socialists in Congress talking with others would be progress, unless they
> get bought off by AIPAC,” his final statement, which brought quite an
> applause.
>
> He said, when revolutions occur, people have to be prepared to die, I
> agree wholeheartedly with that statement, especially with our militarized
> police.
>
> He made the point that due to China’s success in business due to
> capitalism, this is the century of China. I hear from too many on the
> “Left” this statement made, with a sense of dread. I think too many are
> concerned that based upon China’s “capitalism” they too will become
> imperialistic once they reach that stage which many think is near. While
> this maybe true, it should not be the concern of the American people. The
> same people that seem unconcerned about our own imperialist wars against
> others.
>
>
>
> While the inequality in China is great, nonetheless the “working class” or
> middle class is still doing well, that doesn’t negate the poverty and
> treatment of the poor or the “migrant workers” there. However, if one
> compares it to the US in the sixties, one can see that the working class at
> that time here, was not yet prepared for loss of jobs, and impoverishment
> that came about. So I don’t think China is anywhere close to where the US
> is today in relation to poverty and austerity, I think they are in the same
> stage as the US was in the fifty’s and sixty’s.
>
> I could be wrong, but the assumption that China will become imperialist
> just like the US maybe correct based upon Marxian analysis, but that
> negates the culture and history of China, which is no where near that of
> the US.
> We began as a nation, by committing genocide against the original
> inhabitants to occupy this land. We used slavery to develop, and have
> continued unabated to destroy nations and people. This cannot be said about
> China, in spite of whatever flaws they may possess.
>
> Referring to China negatively implying imperialism on their part, in this
> context contributes to the fear and alienation, that supports the USG
> Oligarchs in their pursuit of control of China, further propagandizing our
> need for “defense” against others. The same goals for which we now have
> russiagate.
>
> Tariq supports children taking to the streets to “fight the NRA” but
> doesn’t see the point in mass movements of people taking to the streets to
> confront the USG. He sees the students as being a link in a chain of
> progress, just as the original feminists contribute to the feminists of
> today, ensuring that not all is forgotten.
>
>
> He says, the US soldiers of Vietnam, in 72, had a real impact on the
> antiwar movement, as well as the anti-war protestors in the streets, making
> reference to the Vietnamese now having a museum to US war protestors in
> Vietnam, it was announced about two weeks ago.
>
>
> His reference to the US losing the war, being quite a blow to the US
> imperialists, which is reference to our military loss. This is why the
> Reagan Administration began their interventions in South America covertly.
> He briefly covers some of this.
>
> He makes a good point in respect to Portugal, the revolution in “74” the
> revolt of the soldiers against their government going to fight in foreign
> nations, and the fact that the revolution brought together the various
> socialist organizations to “ talk." This was a phenomenal accomplishment,
> my words not his. However, they listened to rhetoric in relation to no
> privatization, dictatorship, desires for democracy, with all agreeing and
> embracing the narrative.  However, because they failed to organize from the
> ground up, soviets or councils of the people, they ended up with a
> dictatorship of the proletariat.  A lesson to be learned.
>
>
>  The warning on this topic is for those who think once you have a
> revolution, a successful one, even if a bloodless one, if you haven’t
> organized with a plan and preparation in advance, as to how to prevent a
> dictatorship, organizing from the bottom up, it will be a lost cause.
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