[Peace-discuss] Don't send a Democrat to the House

Thu May 24 18:28:22 UTC 2018

Carl, you hold a few un-green values.  Advicate in your name for
republicans and leave the GPUS out of it.  You have a history of attempting
to insert your very un-green ideas into the GPUS and hurting the party in
Champaign County in the process.  Your anti-choice sentiments, I
understand, drove Greens away locally.

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com> wrote:

> You’re not reading very closely, David.
>
> I was in fact defending the Green presidential candidate against Robert
> Naiman, “a paid, professional Democrat progressive attacking the Green
> Party and Jill Stein.”
>
> And there is in fact a debate among members and friends of the Green party
> about what Greens should do this year in the 13th IL CD, where there is no
> Green candidate - (1) abstain, (2) vote for the Democrat, or (3) vote for
> the Republican. I take it your choice is (2).
>
> —CGE
>
>
> On May 24, 2018, at 12:35 PM, David Enstrom via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
> Carl, I don't mind your campaigning for Reblicans on this site, but I do
> very much mind you doing it "as a Green".
>
> I will say to the group that Carl's views  regarding the US House and Rep.
> Davis do not represent the views of the GPUS at ANY level.
>
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 9:01 AM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>
>> Bob—
>>
>> My argument (as you know) has been that the Democrats shouldn’t be given
>> control of the House.
>>
>> I’ll let list members judge if I am a "pathological liar.” My judgement
>> is that you need to get your prescription refilled…
>>
>> And I’m not sure what you think “my little cult” is. I haven’t received
>> instructions from Moscow in weeks now…
>>
>> As a Green (and former candidate for Congress) I supported and voted for
>> Jill Stein in the last election.
>>
>> Your position was accurately captured by John Stauber, "author of 'Toxic
>> Sludge is Good for You' and a leading expert on the politics of propaganda
>> and disinformation. Stauber knows a smear when he sees one” (CounterPunch
>> editor Jeffrey St Clair):
>>
>> “Robert Naiman epitomizes the attitude of the paid, professional Democrat
>> progressives attacking the Green Party and Jill Stein. These shills see no
>> hypocrisy in embracing a candidate supported by Wall Street, the Koch
>> brothers and the neoconservatives who with Hillary lied America into
>> attacking Iraq.  So there it is, Hillary is his champion while a woman
>> running on the most progressive platform in America is just a damned
>> Communist.  Rather than back down when he himself was exposed, he doubled
>> down with a smear befitting the worst of American politics. Naiman is not
>> an aberration however; indeed, he embodies the funded progressive elite who
>> since 2000 have become a front group for the Democrats
>> liberal oligarchs such as George Soros and his Democracy Alliance” <
>> https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/19/roaming-charges-prime-time-green/
>> >.
>>
>> You haven’t "set [yourself] a goal of convincing list members [and
>> others] to 'support the Democrats’”? Really?
>>
>> Regards,  Carl
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2018, at 1:45 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>> I haven't set myself a goal of convincing list members to "support the
>> Democrats" [*sic*].
>>
>> You, on the other hand, opened the thread with an appeal for list members
>> to support Rodney Davis. That's the whole premise of your side of the
>> discussion.
>>
>> You claim not to be advocating for electoral abstention, but I'm pretty
>> sure that you're lying, based on the evidence at hand, even if I didn't
>> already know you as a pathological liar, as most people here also know you.
>>
>> I can't imagine that you actually believe you can convince anyone here to
>> support Rodney Davis. Everyone here knows who Rodney Davis is. People here
>> are politically active, follow the news. Rodney Davis has made no secret of
>> who he is. He's a Paul Ryan-Mitch McConnell Republican. Not a Rand
>> Paul-Mike Lee-Justin Amash Republican. Rodney Davis always votes with Paul
>> Ryan on war and peace. I'm well aware, because I've appealed to Rodney
>> Davis many times to vote and advocate like Justin Amash, and have been
>> rebuffed by Rodney Davis every time. Nobody here has tried harder than me
>> to get Rodney Davis to vote and advocate more like Justin Amash.
>>
>> Therefore, you must have some other goal than the impossible goal of
>> getting people here to support Rodney Davis. I suspect that your goal is to
>> turn people off of practical engagement in electoral politics in the hopes
>> that they will eventually join your little cult.
>>
>> In your lying fantasy story, my project is to get people to "support the
>> Democrats," no matter what.
>>
>> But in the world of objective reality, nobody here has tried harder than
>> me to get Rodney Davis to act on war and peace like a libertarian
>> Republican.
>>
>> I would have been delighted if you ran against Rodney Davis in the
>> Republican primary as a libertarian Republican. I publicly encouraged you
>> to run, right here, on this list. You were too lazy.
>>
>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 1:32 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>
>>> And list members, raise your other hand (and put it over your eyes) if
>>> Bob has convinced you to support the Democrats...
>>>
>>> On May 23, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> List members, please raise your hand if Carl has convinced you to vote
>>> for Rodney Davis.
>>>
>>>
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