[Peace-discuss] Don't send a Democrat to the House

Thu May 24 20:58:24 UTC 2018

I know about this but that is YOUR language.  That language, which is not
in line with the Illinois Green party OR the GPUS.

Get back to your orginal point, we should vote for Rodney Davis because...
If you realy want Davis elected Canvas in Calhoun County.  The audiance
should be more receptive.

Others on the list, if you haven't already I suggest you read the GPUS
platform.

On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 4:14 PM David Enstrom <daenstrom at gmail.com> wrote:

> Carl you appear to be unaware of the GPUS platform on which Jill Stein
> stood, and which you claimed to have supported a couple of posts ago.  You
> seem also to be unaware of other developments in the GPUS.
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 3:54 PM C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> David, you seem unaware that the founding principles of the Prairie
>> Greens explicitly recognize that there are a variety of views among Greens
>> on abortion.
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2018, at 1:28 PM, David Enstrom <daenstrom at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Carl, you hold a few un-green values.  Advicate in your name for
>> republicans and leave the GPUS out of it.  You have a history of attempting
>> to insert your very un-green ideas into the GPUS and hurting the party in
>> Champaign County in the process.  Your anti-choice sentiments, I
>> understand, drove Greens away locally.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 1:50 PM C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You’re not reading very closely, David.
>>>
>>> I was in fact defending the Green presidential candidate against Robert
>>> Naiman, “a paid, professional Democrat progressive attacking the Green
>>> Party and Jill Stein.”
>>>
>>> And there is in fact a debate among members and friends of the Green
>>> party about what Greens should do this year in the 13th IL CD, where there
>>> is no Green candidate - (1) abstain, (2) vote for the Democrat, or (3) vote
>>> for the Republican. I take it your choice is (2).
>>>
>>> —CGE
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2018, at 12:35 PM, David Enstrom via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Carl, I don't mind your campaigning for Reblicans on this site, but I do
>>> very much mind you doing it "as a Green".
>>>
>>> I will say to the group that Carl's views  regarding the US House and
>>> Rep. Davis do not represent the views of the GPUS at ANY level.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 9:01 AM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob—
>>>>
>>>> My argument (as you know) has been that the Democrats shouldn’t be
>>>> given control of the House.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll let list members judge if I am a "pathological liar.” My judgement
>>>> is that you need to get your prescription refilled…
>>>>
>>>> And I’m not sure what you think “my little cult” is. I haven’t received
>>>> instructions from Moscow in weeks now…
>>>>
>>>> As a Green (and former candidate for Congress) I supported and voted
>>>> for Jill Stein in the last election.
>>>>
>>>> Your position was accurately captured by John Stauber, "author of
>>>> 'Toxic Sludge is Good for You' and a leading expert on the politics of
>>>> propaganda and disinformation. Stauber knows a smear when he sees one”
>>>> (CounterPunch editor Jeffrey St Clair):
>>>>
>>>> “Robert Naiman epitomizes the attitude of the paid,
>>>> professional Democrat progressives attacking the Green Party and Jill
>>>> Stein. These shills see no hypocrisy in embracing a candidate supported by
>>>> Wall Street, the Koch brothers and the neoconservatives who with Hillary
>>>> lied America into attacking Iraq.  So there it is, Hillary is his champion
>>>> while a woman running on the most progressive platform in America is just a
>>>> damned Communist.  Rather than back down when he himself was exposed, he
>>>> doubled down with a smear befitting the worst of American politics. Naiman
>>>> is not an aberration however; indeed, he embodies the funded progressive
>>>> elite who since 2000 have become a front group for the Democrats
>>>> liberal oligarchs such as George Soros and his Democracy Alliance” <
>>>> https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/19/roaming-charges-prime-time-green/
>>>> >.
>>>>
>>>> You haven’t "set [yourself] a goal of convincing list members [and
>>>> others] to 'support the Democrats’”? Really?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,  Carl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 24, 2018, at 1:45 AM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I haven't set myself a goal of convincing list members to "support the
>>>> Democrats" [*sic*].
>>>>
>>>> You, on the other hand, opened the thread with an appeal for list
>>>> members to support Rodney Davis. That's the whole premise of your side of
>>>> the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> You claim not to be advocating for electoral abstention, but I'm pretty
>>>> sure that you're lying, based on the evidence at hand, even if I didn't
>>>> already know you as a pathological liar, as most people here also know you.
>>>>
>>>> I can't imagine that you actually believe you can convince anyone here
>>>> to support Rodney Davis. Everyone here knows who Rodney Davis is. People
>>>> here are politically active, follow the news. Rodney Davis has made no
>>>> secret of who he is. He's a Paul Ryan-Mitch McConnell Republican. Not a
>>>> Rand Paul-Mike Lee-Justin Amash Republican. Rodney Davis always votes with
>>>> Paul Ryan on war and peace. I'm well aware, because I've appealed to Rodney
>>>> Davis many times to vote and advocate like Justin Amash, and have been
>>>> rebuffed by Rodney Davis every time. Nobody here has tried harder than me
>>>> to get Rodney Davis to vote and advocate more like Justin Amash.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, you must have some other goal than the impossible goal of
>>>> getting people here to support Rodney Davis. I suspect that your goal is to
>>>> turn people off of practical engagement in electoral politics in the hopes
>>>> that they will eventually join your little cult.
>>>>
>>>> In your lying fantasy story, my project is to get people to "support
>>>> the Democrats," no matter what.
>>>>
>>>> But in the world of objective reality, nobody here has tried harder
>>>> than me to get Rodney Davis to act on war and peace like a libertarian
>>>> Republican.
>>>>
>>>> I would have been delighted if you ran against Rodney Davis in the
>>>> Republican primary as a libertarian Republican. I publicly encouraged you
>>>> to run, right here, on this list. You were too lazy.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 1:32 AM, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And list members, raise your other hand (and put it over your eyes) if
>>>>> Bob has convinced you to support the Democrats...
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 23, 2018, at 6:07 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <
>>>>> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> List members, please raise your hand if Carl has convinced you to vote
>>>>> for Rodney Davis.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>
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