[Peace-discuss] News from Neptune for March 29

Thu Apr 4 03:07:13 UTC 2019

Thank you David.

I appreciate your detailed explanation.

I personally find suggestions of Jewish collusion, or complicity, unnecessary and irrelevant, I’m not referring to your statement below, but rather to those who I see as “anti-semites” when they place blame on the victims. It does need to be understood that humans are flawed, and under such horrific conditions many will betray everyone and everything.

I agree, the criticism of Hannah Arendt, for her coverage of the trial, trivial and unwarranted.

I understand your irritation with the trial of Eichmann, being used as a political ploy, the whole “lay the blame on a few individuals.”  It’s the old “bread and circuses” by providing a facade of justice, or placating their bloodlust.

Still I’m glad they captured and tried him, by whatever means, as long as no innocents were injured during the kidnapping.   I wish we could see more trials, with shaming, and incarceration of war criminals, rather than allowing them to live out their lives in peace.

It’s my understanding the trials of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, were little better, sacrificing a few while protecting the many, to provide a false sense of justice.

Discussions of this nature are important, as we need to focus on institutions, systems, and root causes, more today than ever.

On Apr 3, 2019, at 16:56, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com<mailto:davidgreen50 at gmail.com>> wrote:

Thanks Karen. Yes, of course the Eichmann issue is complicated by so many things, including the complicity, for example of the leader of the Jewish community in Hungary, a Zionist, to save himself while telling his community to cooperate with the Germans; that is, to go to their deaths, resulting  in another famous trial in Israel (Rudolph Kastner, who was ultimately assassinated). But beyond that, Arendt's criticism of the Eichmann trial and the price she had to pay for being honest and truthful to her best ability, regarding which I should probably brush up on myself, or just watch the movie again. But whatever Eichmann's just deserts, it was a political trial, easier to see in retrospect given Israel's emergence as an American ally and the subsequent exploitation of the genocide, and the Mossad mystique. In addition, the concurrent hypocrisy regarding the CIA ratline of Nazis out of Germany, Klaus Barbie, etc. This is why I get so annoyed by the focus on the Nazis' conscription of Eastern Europeans to do their dirty work, and the subsequent chest-thumping by the Nazi-hunters in this country (Simon Wiesenthal, and the Justice Dept. O.S.I.) when these minor functionaries are exposed (although never very clearly and specifically exposed), all of which contributes to the Israeli (Mossad) mystique that was so much a part of Israel endearing itself to Jewish-American (and Gentile-American) hearts in the 1960s. Eichmann was a horrible Nazi and killer; but the West German leadership through the 60s was also made up of Nazis. Justice was done, but in a manner that was politically convenient and useful.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2019 at 1:06 PM C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate how closely you listen to us.

It might be interesting (as David suggested) to read Arendt’s “Eichmann in Jerusalem" (1963) in the present context <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem>.

> On Mar 30, 2019, at 12:26 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com<mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
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>> I found yesterdays NFN, https://youtu.be/HON84MPaoVc, particularly interesting and informative.
>>
>> Carl’s new strategy of being positive, in relation to a Democrat, then allowing others to point out the flaws, is quite  refreshing.
>
>> We need to thank Code Pink for providing the information and data proving what I suspect in relation to Tulsi Gabbard, that of her being a “sheepherder” for the Democrat Party, attempting to sway the anti-war crowd, by “talking about war.” It’s about time someone “talks about it.” However, candidates will talk about whatever they deem necessary to get votes, and funding. The DNC would shut her down if they didn’t like what she is doing. Poor woman, she does retain her cool, when taking so much criticism from those who support war, whatever their political affiliation, but that doesn’t make her Presidential material, nor is it proof she is “anti-war” as Code Pink proves.
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>> Perhaps I misinterpret David, in referring to the “kidnap, of Adolph Eichmann?” are you implying, that is the beginning of the immoral behavior of the Mossad, Shin Bet?
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>> I realize many at the time felt Israel and the US should always take the moral high ground and follow the law. Just as many think “Truth and Reconciliation” to be justice. If they had kidnapped and tortured and/or murdered Eichmann, I would agree. If they had done what the Mossad did in the seventy’s in relation to Munich, by murdering the members of Black September responsible for terrorism perpetrated against athletes in the Olympics, I would agree. They didn’t, they brought a war criminal to trial, he received “due process,” and the relatives and victims had justice, if one can ever achieve justice for crimes against humanity.  I would have, preferred prison for life, solitary confinement as we do with political prisoners in the US, like Chelsea Manning, as I don’t support the death penalty. However, allowing a war criminal, Eichmann wasn’t “just a military man following orders,” he was one of the architects of the “final solution,” to live out their life in comfort is not only an injustice, but an example of inhumanity,  inequality, and racism.
>
> Imagine a future where US war criminals flee the US and take up residence in Israel or KSA, I wouldn’t be concerned if the Iraqi’s or Libyans then kidnapped and took them back to their nation for trial by the victims. It would be more just than these people living in wealth and splendor throughout the rest of their days as if heroes, as is current.
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>> On Mar 30, 2019, at 09:30, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com<mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com>> wrote:
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>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HON84MPaoVc
>>
>> News from Neptune #415
>> A "Boys of Summer” edition [Links and notes by J.B. Nicholson]
>> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HON84MPaoVc
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>> Links to items referenced on the show.
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>> Roger Kahn's "Boys of Summer"
>> ISBN-10: 0060883960
>> ISBN-13: 978-0060883966
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>>
>> George Will on "Democratic candidates are channeling late-night infomercials"
>> https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2019/03/10/george-f-will-democratic/
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>>
>> Michael Roberts on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) in a 3-part series on his blog:
>>
>> Modern monetary theory – part 1: Chartalism and Marx
>> Part 1: https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2019/01/28/modern-monetary-theory-part-1-chartalism-and-marx/
>>
>> MMT 2 – the tricks of circulation
>> Part 2: https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2019/02/05/mmt-3-a-backstop-to-capitalism/
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>> MMT 3 – a backstop to capitalism
>> https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2019/02/05/mmt-3-a-backstop-to-capitalism/
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>>
>>
>> Rob Urie on "Re: The Green New Deal: First, Shoot the Economists"
>> https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/29/re-the-green-new-deal-first-shoot-the-economists/
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>>
>>
>> Doug Henwood on MMT
>> https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/02/modern-monetary-theory-isnt-helping
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>> Randy Wray on "Response to Doug Henwood’s Trolling on MMT in Jacobin"
>> https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/02/randy-wray-response-doug-henwoods-trolling-mmt-jacobin.html
>>
>> Originally published in
>> http://neweconomicperspectives.org/2019/02/response-to-doug-henwoods-trolling-in-jacobin.html
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>>
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>> Jim Dey on "Polls say progressive tax is popular — or is it?"
>> http://www.news-gazette.com/opinion/columns/2019-03-29/jim-dey-polls-say-progressive-tax-popular-%E2%80%94-or-it.html
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>>
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>> "Capital in the Twenty-first Century" by Thomas Piketty
>> Complete book: https://dowbor.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/14Thomas-Piketty.pdf
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>>
>> Tobin Tax
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobin_tax
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>>
>>
>> CodePink on "War and Peace and the 2020 Presidential Candidates"
>> https://www.commondreams.org/views/2019/03/27/war-and-peace-and-2020-presidential-candidates
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>>
>> Sen. Sanders on NBC's "Meet the Press"
>> https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders-would-use-drones-to-fight-terror-542522435844
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>> UPI on "Rafi Eitan, spy who captured Nazi Adolf Eichmann, dies"
>> https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2019/03/24/Rafi-Eitan-spy-who-captured-Nazi-Adolf-Eichmann-dies/5831553484489/
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>> New York Times on "Rafi Eitan, 92, Israeli Spymaster Who Caught Eichmann, Is Dead"
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/obituaries/rafi-eitan-dead.html
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>> Associated Press on "New Zealand bans manifesto of accused Christchurch killer, igniting debate about censorship and free speech"
>> https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/australasia/article/3003087/new-zealand-bans-manifesto-accused-christchurch-killer
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>> Jonathan Cook on "Trump’s Green Light to Israel: First the Golan, Then the West Bank?"
>> https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/28/trumps-green-light-to-israel-first-the-golan-then-the-west-bank/
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>> Related:
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>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT1v4fbljx4 -- Pres. Trump deems Golan Heights to be part of Israel
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsoip2fsb1E -- RT: Russia, Turkey blast move to recognize Golan Heights as Israeli
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3segzWTLsk -- Ruptly: UN Security Council meeting on Syria & Golan Heights recognition
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>> Map of Golan Heights
>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Golan_Heights_Map.PNG
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>> Russia Defies US Threats Over Venezuela
>> Transcript: https://therealnews.com/stories/russia-defies-us-threats-over-venezuela
>> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MX_LS_NqQA
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>> J.B. Nicholson on "Is Tulsi Gabbard really anti-war? No, she’s pro-drone and for “surgical strikes”."
>> https://digitalcitizen.info/2019/02/13/is-tulsi-gabbard-really-anti-war-no-shes-pro-drone-and-for-surgical-strikes/
>>
>> January 2018 Rep. Tulsi Gabbard interview with Jeremy Scahill of The Intercept
>> Transcript: https://theintercept.com/2018/01/17/intercepted-podcast-white-mirror/
>> Audio: https://traffic.megaphone.fm/PPY1407171456.mp3
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>> Adeel Hassan, Karen Zraick and Alan Blinder on "Morris Dees, a Co-Founder of the Southern Poverty Law Center, Is Ousted"
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/us/morris-dees-southern-poverty-law-center-fired.html
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>> Alexander Cockburn on "King of the Hate Business"
>> https://www.thenation.com/article/king-hate-business/
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>>
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>> Paul Craig Roberts on "Now We Will Find Out If Trump Is Really The President Or Merely A Figurehead"
>> https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2019/03/25/now-we-will-find-out-if-trump-is-really-the-president-or-merely-a-figurehead/
>>
>> -J
>>
>

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