[Peace-discuss] Postponed means no-platformed

Thu Apr 11 13:35:02 UTC 2019

Carl is right, the “free speech amendment and bill of rights,” applies only to the federal government. Don’t take my word for it, ask a lawyer, I’m pleased to hear him finally admit it.

This is one of the reasons I am often in conflict with Carl. Allowing members of the community who care nothing about war or peace, take the opportunity to make personal attacks against others, on the Peace Discuss List, serves no purpose. We sign up those we assume support peace and wish to acquire information in relation to war, and peace, and all that is related, and engage in discussions which should be based on the issues.

It’s also one of the means of allowing provocateurs to destroy or kill the credibility of a movement or group, allowing anything, anywhere to be said under the guise of “freedom of speech.”

On Apr 11, 2019, at 05:08, Robert Naiman <naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>> wrote:

"There is no general right to freedom of speech in the US." There is if the public insists there is. If people take the attitude that it would be cool to take away other people's free speech rights as much as it is possible to legally get away with, then no. But taking the attitude that it would be cool to take away other people's free speech rights as much as it is possible to legally get away with would be wrong. It would be immoral. It would be unethical. It would be an insult to the memory of people who struggled in the past to expand the space of free speech rights, like Marianne Brun.

The University of Illinois largely got away with taking away Salaita's free speech rights. They were sanctioned by the AAUP; those sanctions were removed shortly after the University reached a legal settlement with Salaita. He got a payout, but not the job that he had been promised.

What attitude should righteous people take towards this situation? Should they celebrate the fact that UIUC largely got away with abrogating Salaita's free speech rights? Should they rub their hands with glee? Should they cackle with joy?

Or should they try to figure out how to stop the abrogation of free speech rights in the future?

I always knew you as a First Amendment hardliner, Carl. That was the one thing we always agreed on. Now that you have defected away from the camp of First Amendment hardliners, I guess we don't agree on anything.

On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 5:51 PM C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com<mailto:cgestabrook at gmail.com>> wrote:
As Bob well knows, the Bill of Rights (including the 1st Amendment) was designed to bind only the federal government.

There is no general right to freedom of speech in the US. And as A. J. Liebling pointed out long ago, "Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one.”

For the consideration of a society where such a general right might exist, see Ursula K. Le Guin’s classic novel, "The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia” (1974).

It’s science fiction of course.

> On Apr 10, 2019, at 2:00 PM, Robert Naiman via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>
> And "no-platformed" means "blacklisted."
>
> When was the meeting when the First Amendment was repealed? I don't remember being invited to that meeting.
>
> ===
>
> Robert Reuel Naiman
> Policy Director
> Just Foreign Policy
> www.justforeignpolicy.org<http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/>
> naiman at justforeignpolicy.org<mailto:naiman at justforeignpolicy.org>
> (202) 448-2898 x1
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 1:57 PM David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net<mailto:peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> POSTPONED: Max Blumenthal - The Management of Savagery: How America's National Security State Feuled the Rise of Al Queda, ISIS, and Donald Trump—at The Wharf
>
> Wednesday, April 3, 2019 - 7 p.m. to 8 p.m.
> Politics and Prose is postponing tonight’s event at The Wharf with author Max Blumenthal as we work to address concerns that have arisen over the event’s format, substance, and security. We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your patience and understanding.
>
> In his new book, Blumenthal, award-winning journalist and author of geo-political studies including Goliath and The 51 Day War, charts the history of American involvement in the Middle East from the Reagan administration to today. His account follows two deeply intertwined strands: the simultaneous rise of international jihadism and Western ultra-nationalism. Starting with Washington’s secret funding of the mujahideen after the Russian invasion of Afghanistan, and moving to the flow of arms that today is more likely to end up with Syrian extremists than with the anti-Assad forces they’re meant for,  Blumenthal charts how the same groups Washington has supported eventually turn their anger against us. Meanwhile, the nation’s domestic politics have become more extreme in their own way, leading to today’s deeply polarized and unsettled society under Trump.
>
> https://www.politics-prose.com/event/book/postponed-max-blumenthal-management-of-savagery-how-americas-national-security-state
>
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