[Peace-discuss] News from Neptune #432 notes

Sat Aug 10 18:40:31 UTC 2019

Here is the discourse that I was referring to regarding Timothy McViegh:

http://www.marxmail.org/msg160148.html

Which refers back to Richard Seymour's patreon blog post:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/fascist-28942843

Here is the comment by *Amith Gupta *that I read on the program:

   I disagree with Michael's reading of McVeigh. There was very little
   indication that he was motivated by the same factors as the El Paso
   shooter
   or other neo-Nazi terrorists (i.e. belief in a conspiratorial genocide
   against white people). The only indications that I could find were the
   fact
   that he had the Turner Diaries in his possession; that is unsurprising,
   given the plot of the book is about citizens carrying out an armed
   insurgency against the government, albeit they are all racists. I recall
   reading (though I can't find it for the life of me) how McVeigh thought
   of
   the book as a useful guide for carrying out terrorist plots against the
   government but rejected its race-related messaging. Likewise, he
   apparently
   bought a "White Power" shirt from the KKK during a protest and
   counter-protest when he was in the military, but from what I could find
   it
   is little more than shirt that says "Sic Semper Tyrannis" which a photo
   of
   Lincoln (as I'm sure you all know, those were the words that Booth stated
   before assassinating Lincoln). Given the lack of involvement with active
   Nazi militias at any point in his life and complete lack of any "race
   war"-related commentary in any statements he made prior to or after the
   bombing, I find it a stretch to throw him in with these other guys,
   though
   he clearly had some sort of flirtations with other people who had those
   views.

   The letters he wrote prior to his execution and other statements he made
   during his life would indicate that while he was very much a
   right-winger,
   the primary factors behind his violence were being desensitized to mass
   killings during his military service in Iraq and watching the heavily
   militarized response of the U.S. government to various groups in the
   United
   States, including Randy Weaver and the Branch Davidians. Those responses
   involved killing many people and, at least in the Weaver case, involved
   an
   ultimately successful entrapment defense (i.e. Weaver was acquitted).
   Weaver and his family were actually white nationalists but the outrage
   about the attack on that family was hardly limited to people who share
   their ideological views; indeed, it was an absolutely ridiculous use of
   force against a guy they had tried to get on a manufactured gun charge
   knowing that he had small children and a wife (who was killed) in the
   home.
   There is no evidence that the Branch Davidians practiced white supremacy
   at
   all (they were just a batshit crazy religious cult led by a maniacal
   abuser).

   IOW McVeigh realized that the U.S. government did not mind when he killed
   people under their orders and decided that the same ethical rules should
   apply when fighting the U.S. government, which was a fight that he
   justified by pointing to the police killings mentioned above. Beyond that
   there is nothing to suggest that he wanted to kill people because of
   their
   race, drive non-whites out of the country, etc. Given the quickness of
   people on the Left to jump at a neo-Nazi/racist angle whenever there is
   some kind of large attack (including Dayton, which, as I pointed out, was
   carried out by someone who identified as a Leftist) we should be careful
   not to sweep with a broad brush.
*The bigger issue that McVeigh brings out is not white supremacy;* it is
   the dehumanizing and desensitizing effect of
   U.S. wars and the resultant effects when those aspects of war (including
   militarization of police) are launched domestically.

   Amith R. Gupta

Again, as stated on the program and in a previous post, this relates to my
concern with the approach taken by historian Kathleen Belew in her book The
War Comes Home, and in her op-ed piece in the NYT, which elides the issues
surrounding Ruby Ridge and Waco:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/04/opinion/el-paso-terrorism.html

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 5:43 PM J.B. Nicholson via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> News from Neptune #432
> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trphIyYt1Ko
> A "Nagasaki Holocaust" edition
>
>
> Dwight Eisenhower's view on using the Atomic Bomb
>
> http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key-issues/nuclear-weapons/history/pre-cold-war/hiroshima-nagasaki/opinion-eisenhower-bomb.htm
> Source: The White House Years: Mandate for Change: 1953-1956: A Personal
> Account (New York: Doubleday, 1963), pp. 312-313.
>
> Timothy P. Carney on "‘It wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful
> thing’ --- Why dropping the A-Bombs was wrong"
>
> https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/it-wasnt-necessary-to-hit-them-with-that-awful-thing-why-dropping-the-a-bombs-was-wrong
>
> On Curtis LeMay being a hawk
> https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay
>
> Dennis Kucinich on "We Didn't Have to Drop the Bomb"
>
> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/08/08/we_didnt_have_to_drop_the_bomb_127709.html
>
> Stephen Schwartz on "The Costs of U.S. Nuclear Weapons"
> https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/costs-us-nuclear-weapons/
>
> Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9EzA0QnSF4 -- RT on "Nuclear
> threat looms, even years after Hiroshima & Nagasaki nuclear attacks."
>
>
>
>
> Adolph Reed, Jr. on "Oats for Breakfast" show
>
> https://soundcloud.com/user-108536943/episode-12-race-class-and-the-left-w-adolph-reed-jr
> -- initially published interview
>
> https://soundcloud.com/user-108536943/unlocked-extended-interview-w-adolph-reed-jr
> -- extended interview
>
> Oats for Breakfast
> https://socialistproject.ca/podcast/
>
> Glen Ford on "The Validity and Usefulness of the Term “Black Misleadership
> Class”"
>
> https://www.blackagendareport.com/validity-and-usefulness-term-black-misleadership-class
>
> Jennifer Schuessler on "Ibram X. Kendi Has a Cure for America’s
> ‘Metastatic
> Racism’"
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/arts/ibram-x-kendi-antiracism.html
>
> Related: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a9lRHfKaCc -- RT on "How
> corporate media covered mass shootings."
>
> Democracy Now! on "“Toni Morrison Will Always Be with Us”: Angela Davis,
> Nikki Giovanni & Sonia Sanchez Pay Tribute"
> https://www.democracynow.org/2019/8/7/remembering_toni_morrison
>
> Kathleen Belew on "The Right Way to Understand White Nationalist Terrorism"
> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/04/opinion/el-paso-terrorism.html
>
> Kathleen Belew's "Bring the War Home: The White Power Movement and
> Paramilitary America"
> ISBN-10: 9780674286078
> ISBN-13: 978-0674286078
>
>
>
>
> Julie Wurth on "UI's Blue Waters supercomputer gets $11.1M grant to create
> high-res topographical maps of world"
>
> https://www.news-gazette.com/news/ui-s-blue-waters-supercomputer-gets-m-grant-to-create/article_2a390805-9457-5717-ab35-4d9c2892a580.html
>
> Wikipedia's entry on National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Geospatial-Intelligence_Agency
>
> David Price on "Militarized Observers: Institutional Daydreams of Ethics
> End Runs to Weaponize Culture"
>
> https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/08/09/militarized-observers-institutional-daydreams-of-ethics-end-runs-to-weaponize-culture/
>
> Gary Brecher's (pseudonym of John Dolan) Radio War Nerd
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6qV1M0aujeZ582k4gaD9wA/videos
>
> Related: The War Nerd articles across multiple archives
> http://pando.com/author/garybrecher/ -- PandoDaily (November 2013 -
> November 2015)
> https://www.nsfwcorp.com/desk/war-nerd/ -- NSFWCorp (September
> 2012-November 2013)
> http://www.exile.ru/articles/list.php?IBLOCK_ID=35&SECTION_ID=156 -- The
> Exile (April 2002 - May 2008)
> http://exiledonline.com/cat/war-nerd/ -- The Exiled Online (April
> 2011-September 2012)
>
>
>
>
> Craig Murray on "In the World of Truth and Fact, Russiagate is Dead. In
> the
> World of the Political Establishment, it is Still the New 42"
>
> https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/08/in-the-world-of-truth-and-fact-russiagate-is-dead-in-the-world-of-the-political-establishment-it-is-still-the-new-42/
>
> Judge Koeltl's 81-page long judgment explaining why "the basis of
> Russiagate are insufficient to even warrant a hearing"
>
> https://www.scribd.com/document/420269577/DNC-lawsuit-ORDER-Granting-Motion-to-Dismiss-073019
>
>
>
>
> J.B. Nicholson's notes
> https://lists.chambana.net/pipermail/peace-discuss/2019-August/051127.html
>
> -J
> _______________________________________________
> Peace-discuss mailing list
> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
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