[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Panel at UFL today at 3

[C G Estabrook]

Nina’s position, as David presents it, seems to me eminently reasonable.  —CGE


> On Mar 27, 2019, at 5:19 PM, David Green via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> 
> Karen, 
> 
> Nina's exact point is that gender is not binary, but that (biological) sex is.
> 
> The questions she raises, intelligently discussed for 2 hours on Saturday, have to do (first) with how biological sex changes (hormones, surgery), should be prescribed, especially to minors, especially without parental consent; also discussed on Saturday was the advisability of biological men being in women's prisons, shelters, and other (biological) women's spaces, including athletic venues. 
> 
> She also resists, justifiably I think, the demand by some to use pronouns other than those that relate to biological sex; she describes such demands as of a fascist nature. Of course, she doesn't care how trans people address themselves or each other.
> 
> All of this notwithstanding, one has to be shocked at the repressive reaction (arguably violating her rights, even human rights) she has received as a result of questioning current conventional views among some progressives and in gender studies academic programs, including Mimi Nguyen at the U of I (see Nina's blog post).
> 
> Those who gathered upstairs at UFL on Saturday, an hour before the panel, apparently weren't willing to listen to what these 3 panelists, one a trans-woman, had to say; or what the audience response might be (which was respectful and intelligent). While the f(ascist) word is over-used these days, and may be over-used even in this context, I think Nina's point is correct: those who represent the views of trans-people do so in a way that invokes human rights while depriving others of their civil rights, including "no-platforming", as Nina has been subject to. That might be called a fascist attitude, although I might call it something else--at the very least, crowd-sourced arrogance.
> 
> Unfortunately, this isn't as simple as according people human rights. The nature of these rights, and possible conflicts among these rights, needs to be elaborated.
> 
> Best,
> 
> David
> 
> On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 4:20 PM Karen Medina via Peace-discuss <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> Thanks David for posting this. 
> 
> For what it is worth, 
> 	• I like Nina Paley.
> 	• I strongly disagree with Nina on this issue.
> 	• I do admire that she is having public discussions though. 
> Let me explain how I disagree.
> * I believe that gender is not as binary as Nina believes it to be. 
> * I believe that nature is not male / female binary. 
> * I believe that people should gather together to work for human rights; I believe that "feminists" should JOIN the transgender rights movement. Nina believes that the transgender movement takes away from, uses, takes advantage of the feminist movement. 
> 
> How do I agree?
> * People should work together for human rights. 
> 
> -karen medina
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