[Peace-discuss] [Peace] Panel at UFL today at 3

[David Green]

Karen,

Nina's exact point is that gender is *not *binary, but that (biological)
sex is.

The questions she raises, intelligently discussed for 2 hours on Saturday,
have to do (first) with how biological *sex *changes (hormones, surgery),
should be prescribed, especially to minors, especially without parental
consent; also discussed on Saturday was the advisability of biological men
being in women's prisons, shelters, and other (biological) women's spaces,
including athletic venues.

She also resists, justifiably I think, the demand by some to use pronouns
other than those that relate to biological sex; she describes such demands
as of a fascist nature. Of course, she doesn't care how trans people
address themselves or each other.

All of this notwithstanding, one has to be shocked at the repressive
reaction (arguably violating her rights, even human rights) she has
received as a result of questioning current conventional views among some
progressives and in gender studies academic programs, including Mimi Nguyen
at the U of I (see Nina's blog post).

Those who gathered upstairs at UFL on Saturday, an hour before the panel,
apparently weren't willing to listen to what these 3 panelists, one a
trans-woman, had to say; or what the audience response might be (which was
respectful and intelligent). While the f(ascist) word is over-used these
days, and may be over-used even in this context, I think Nina's point is
correct: those who represent the views of trans-people do so in a way that
invokes human rights while depriving others of their civil rights,
including "no-platforming", as Nina has been subject to. That might be
called a fascist attitude, although I might call it something else--at the
very least, crowd-sourced arrogance.

Unfortunately, this isn't as simple as according people human rights. The
nature of these rights, and possible conflicts among these rights, needs to
be elaborated.

Best,

David

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 4:20 PM Karen Medina via Peace-discuss <
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

> Thanks David for posting this.
>
> For what it is worth,
>
>    - I like Nina Paley.
>    - I strongly *disagree* with Nina on *this issue*.
>    - I do admire that she is having public discussions though.
>
> Let me explain how I disagree.
> * I believe that gender is not as binary as Nina believes it to be.
> * I believe that nature is not male / female binary.
> * I believe that people should gather together to work for human rights; I
> believe that "feminists" should JOIN the transgender rights movement. Nina
> believes that the transgender movement takes away from, uses, takes
> advantage of the feminist movement.
>
> How do I agree?
> * People should work together for human rights.
>
> -karen medina
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