[Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?

Sun Sep 2 13:40:17 UTC 2012

I would like to be taken off this list. How do I get that done?

dritter at conxxus.com

From: peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Chris Goodrow
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 6:05 PM
To: Gregg Gordon
Cc: Peace Discuss; C. G. Estabrook; ocCUpy; Peace
Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and
Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on
eve of Obama's speech?

I'm just curious, but the people who are opposed to the focus of a protest?
Are these people who actually participate in these protests?

How many civilians died in drone strikes this year? How many Americans were
targeted as enemy combatants and killed in the past two years?

Chris

(217) 898-5039

On Sep 1, 2012, at 17:55, "Gregg Gordon" <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:

So how many Americans died in Iraq this week?  And how's the missile shield
in eastern Europe coming (to cite just two significant differences with the
Bush Administration)?

Look -- I'm not saying give anyone a pass on anything.  I'm saying make your
point strategically and intelligently.  It's likely to improve your
effectiveness.  

Frankly, I don't think there's anything a handful of people in C-U are going
to do in the next two months that will make an iota's difference to the
outcome of the election or the future of Bradley Manning.  I would guess 95%
of the people who drive by any such demonstration will have no idea who
Bradley Manning is, and there's nothing you can put on a placard that will
inform them.  It won't even be covered by the local newspaper.  So in that
respect, I don't care, but the larger point is worth considering.  Do we do
these things to fulfill a sense of righteous indignation, or are we trying
to have an impact on future events?

  _____  

From: C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>
To: Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com>; Peace Discuss
<peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; ocCUpy <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>; Peace
<peace at anti-war.net> 
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and
Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on
eve of Obama's speech?

It's important to assess how important the difference it makes is. The
answer seems to be, not much.

Obama - although he campaigned against them - followed Bush's economic and
military polices, if in a more brutal and efficient fashion.

That may be some slight reason to vote against him, but it's certainly not a
reason to support him.

On Sep 1, 2012, at 10:15 AM, Gregg Gordon <ggregg79 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I find it mind-boggling that anyone who lived through the years 2000-2008
really believes "it makes no difference."

  _____  

From: C. G. Estabrook <cge at shout.net>
To: Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Peace Discuss <peace-discuss at anti-war.net>; ocCUpy
<occupycu at lists.chambana.net>; Peace <peace at anti-war.net> 
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2012 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Peace] [OccupyCU] [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and
Demonstration on Saturday; and, another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on
eve of Obama's speech?

I think it's wrong to give Obama a pass on Bradley Manning and hold off on
condemning his crimes - from the suppression of WikiLeaks to the murders of
Americans and others - for ostensible fear of a candidate (Romney) whose
positions on economic and military matters are inherently identical to those
of the administration. 

"Voting for reform-minded candidates should take about five minutes, and
then we go back to the important work on the ground to change the conditions
in which the mostly farcical election process proceeds" [Chomsky]. --CGE

On Sep 1, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Jenifer Cartwright <jencart13 at yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm guessing you guys haven't been listening to the Repub Convention
speeches, but Romney et al are  FAR, FAR, FAR worse than Obama et al... So
how 'bout we save our protests until AFTER the election, and use our energy
defeating the LOTS WORSE evils??? It won't significantly affect YOUR lives
if the Dems are defeated, but it will be devastating to MILLIONS across the
US and the world.

--- On Fri, 8/31/12, Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Stuart Levy <stuartnlevy at gmail.com>
Subject: [Peace-discuss] Farmer's Market and Demonstration on Saturday; and,
another on Sept. 6th for Bradley Manning on eve of Obama's speech?
To: "Peace" <peace at anti-war.net>, "Peace Discuss"
<peace-discuss at anti-war.net>, "ocCUpy" <occupycu at lists.chambana.net>
Date: Friday, August 31, 2012, 11:26 AM

The wars go on despite the weather and so shall we (at least we'll try).

Expect AWARE and CUCPJ at the Farmer's Market tomorrow morning, 8-noon.

And, from 2-4, the AWARE+OccupyCU demonstration will be at its usual
first-Saturday site,

   Main and Neil, downtown Champaign
   2-4 PM Saturday, Sept. 1st

If it turns into a real downpour, we'll retire somewhere nearby for lunch.

There's also a nationally-coordinated suggestion for groups to hold
demonstrations on *Thursday, September 6th*, in support of Bradley Manning
--

    "Show Obama that Bradley Manning is our hero"

Why the 6th?  That's the date of Obama's acceptance speech at the DNC.

To make a definite *proposal*, how about:

   (proposed) Demonstration in support of accused whistleblower Bradley
Manning
   5:00PM Thursday, Sept. 6th
   Urbana Veterans' Memorial
       (that's Broadway and Main, or, the NW corner of the block where the
county courthouse is)

What do people think?   (Could also make sense to complain more broadly
about Obama's unfulfilled promise as a peace, civil liberties, etc.
candidate from four years ago.)

If you like the idea *and* think you can be there for at least part of
5-6PM, please write back (either to peace-discuss at anti-war.net or to
occupyCU or to me, but not to the peace list please).

If we have at least, say, five people who believe they can do this, then
let's go for it.  Meanwhile let's consider Sept. 6th as still tentative.

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