[Peace] [Peace-discuss] What we're up against

Sat Dec 16 23:08:51 UTC 2017

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 4:02 PM, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
wrote:

How should the good fight go on? Does Hedges tell us? It’s clear that
> deploring Trump’s character  is not the way.
>
> The US political establishment - who have provided us with 40 years of war
> and accelerating inequality, in both Republican and Democrat
> administrations - are using Trump (the weakest president since Coolidge) as
> a boogeyman to insure the maintenance of those policies.
>
> He was elected in part because of his occasional criticism of them, and
> that was enough to terrify the neocons.
>
> Johnstone, although perhaps not writing in a Ciceronian style, points that
> out clearly.
>
> Anti-Trumpism is being used "as a deliberate ploy to manipulate what
> remains of the American political left into the pro-neoliberalism, pro-war
> ‘center’ …  the Democratic party is able to herd the political left into
> supporting pro-war, pro-oligarchy candidates and agendas…"
>
> That’s what must be exposed, and opposed. Trump is not the problem: US
> war-making is. —CGE
>

Except that U.S. war-making antedates tRump, and Coolidge, and indeed the
birth of the Republic.  :-/  War-making is a permanent and immutable
characteristic of human nature.  U.S. imperialism is a bit more recent, but
not much.  It's a continuum.  And imperialism in general characterizes
every militarily strong civilization since there were nation-states.  Even
earlier, if you include the Roman Empire, Ghengis Khan, etc.

> > On Dec 16, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >
> > Upon reading this, carefully, I find it overwrought, hyperbolic, to the
> point of being deceptive. Not that I have any wish to defend the policies
> rendered by the Dems and friends on matters of war and peace, and more
> generally the effects of the U.S.(struggles for world hegemony) upon the
> rest of the world. It is all frighteningly abysmal. But the good fight must
> go on, as Cris Hedges emphasized at the end of his remarkable, if overlong,
> address to a Sanctuary audience. .
> >
> > —mkb
> >
> >> On Dec 16, 2017, at 11:38 AM, C G Estabrook <cgestabrook at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Anti-Trumpism Is Anti-Progressivism In Disguise
> >>
> >> The usual Clintonite pundits are crowing triumphantly about their
> narrow, expensive victory over a spectacularly awful candidate in Alabama
> yesterday, effectively claiming that this vindicates the way they’ve been
> ignoring everyone to the left of John McCain since the election. I don’t
> care about the Democratic party enough to write an entire article about how
> this is yet another sign that its leadership has no intention of ever
> moving even a single inch to the left in any way that matters, but I’d like
> to share a few thoughts on the general big-picture trend in US politics
> that this is a part of.
> >>
> >> When I say that anti-Trumpism is anti-progressivism in disguise, I
> don’t mean to suggest that Trump is progressive in any way, shape or form,
> nor do I mean to suggest that his administration isn’t advancing many
> legitimately toxic policies which must be ferociously opposed. By
> anti-Trumpism I mean the blinkered, frenzied “ZOMG LITERALLY HITLER” cult
> which prioritizes impeachment of the sitting president above all else and
> at any cost, and by anti-progressivism I mean it’s being used as a
> deliberate ploy to manipulate what remains of the American political left
> into the pro-neoliberalism, pro-war “center”.
> >>
> >> The campaign against Roy Moore was simply a microcosm of this general
> “vote for us because we’re not that scary boogieman” good cop/bad cop game
> both parties have been extorting the American public with for generations.
> Like Trump, Moore was a scandal-saturated slob who represented some of the
> most pernicious aspects of the GOP, and, though his opponent Doug Jones
> campaigned as a centrist who would work with Republicans, he was still
> viewed as better than Moore by enough people to win an election. This
> extortion scheme forced the people of Alabama to choose between a senator
> who would help move US politics far to the right and someone who would help
> move US politics only somewhat to the right, and they voted in
> self-defense, not because they liked Jones but because they feared Moore.
> >>
> >> This is a perfect illustration of how anti-Trumpism is being used on a
> much larger scale. By constantly masturbating the absurd narrative that
> Donald Trump is simultaneously (A) crazy, (B) stupid, (C) a secret Nazi and
> (D) a treasonous Kremlin agent, the Democratic party is able to herd the
> political left into supporting pro-war, pro-oligarchy candidates and
> agendas. In the same way they used “But Roy Moore!” to win support for an
> imperialist corporate whore, they will use “But Trump!” to win support for
> their neoliberal neoconservative extortion scheme at every turn.
> >>
> >> Whenever I point this out I get a bunch of Democratic party loyalists
> telling me “We can walk and chew gum at the same time! We can work to
> impeach Trump while advancing progressive causes!” No you can’t. You can’t
> and you don’t. When it came time to fight the DNC’s illicit,
> charter-violating installation of Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders they
> “But Trump!”ed you into conforming. When it came time to support a third
> party they “But Trump!”ed you into conforming. When it came time to demand
> a massive overhaul of the DNC they “But Trump!”ed you into conforming. When
> it came time to demand a full investigation and restitution for the
> Democratic party’s misdeeds and manipulations exposed by WikiLeaks they
> “But Trump!”ed you into conforming. Every meaningful movement toward
> economic justice has been muted and marginalized since the election by “But
> Trump! But Trump! But Trump!” while the Republicans march the country
> further into corporatist oligarchy, and this scheme will continue for as
> long as it continues to work.
> >>
> >> As long as the American left allows fear of Trump to determine the way
> it thinks and votes, the American left will be completely neutered. When
> this boogieman is out of office, they’ll simply elevate another one just
> like they did with Trump, probably one that’s even scarier since the last
> one was so effective. If they can’t beat that one they’ll use him to herd
> the left into the center, just like they’re doing now.
> >>
> >> There’s a pipe dream in the DemEnter school of thought that
> progressives will be able to stage a takeover of the Democratic party
> beginning in 2018, but as long as the cult of anti-Trumpism, impeachment
> and Russiagate continues to dominate the way Democrats think and vote, this
> simply will not happen. 2018 will not be a year in which Berniecrats shore
> up influence over the Democratic party, it will be a year in which
> Democrats are “But Trump!”ed into supporting the so-called “center”, which
> only gets to call itself that because its massive corporate funds and media
> influence have enabled it to become a mainstream force.
> >>
> >> You cannot have your impeachment/Russiagate crusade and also move US
> politics to the left, progressives. You cannot. What you are trying to do
> isn’t like walking and chewing gum at the same time, it’s like trying to
> walk in one direction while taking a jet plane in the other direction at
> the same time. Keep supporting the impeachment/Russiagate narrative and
> you’re just handing the ranchers an easy day’s work as you march yourselves
> all straight into the slaughterhouse. They will “But Trump!” you into
> conformity until you stop letting fear and corporate narratives rule your
> minds and start pushing for what you truly want for yourselves instead.
> >>
> >> --– Caitlin Johnstone <medium.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 16, 2017, at 11:27 AM, Brussel, Morton K via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I agree with your characterization of Trump, fully. He is incoherent,
> inept, and ignorant, even to those who have interviewed him with the intent
> of showing him to be less so. That anyone would put faith, or hope, in
> whatever he says is e extremely foolish. A very dangerous dilemma for the
> nation, and the world.
> >>> Thanks.  mkb
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Dec 16, 2017, at 4:17 AM, John W. via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 3:41 AM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Did it ever occur to you that Trump might have been LYING when he
> criticized "neolib and neocon policies" in order to stoke voter anger and
> gain votes, just like he lied about draining the swamp, respecting women,
> not hurting Medicare and Social Security, providing "terrific" health care
> for everyone, and too many other subjects to mention?
> >>>>
> >>>> Deb
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>> Even the term "lying" seems too rational or calculated or
> sophisticated, somehow, to describe tRump.  You can't THEORIZE about tRump
> in anything like the normal way.  I would simply say that tRump is so far
> gone that his words bear absolutely no relation to his actions or
> intentions, which are impulsive and childish and motivated solely by
> insecurity and narcissism, certainly not by any coherent ideology.  His
> words are never to be believed or trusted, to a far greater degree even
> than the average politician.  They are simply to be ignored, and his
> actions observed and noted as the actions of a madman.  He's a dangerous
> child with the nuclear codes.
> >>>>
> >>>> John Wason
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:41 PM, "Carl G. Estabrook" <
> galliher at illinois.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Democrat party supports neoconservative policies (more war)
> abroad, and neoliberal policies (more inequality) at home. Jones is an
> apparatchik of that party. The people of Alabama need to educate him on
> their real needs - viz., an end to 40 years of accelerating immiseration,
> under Democrat as well as Republican administrations. Their remarkably
> quiescent suffering finally elected a president who criticized neolib and
> neocon policies (who was then under intense pressure to continue those
> policies). Time-servers like Jones probably won’t be able to put the
> populist genie back in the bottle. We shouldn’t help them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here’s what we’re dealing with, along with the vicious military
> policies of the Obama-Clinton administration to “maintain the disparity”
> with the rest of the world: <https://www.theguardian.com/
> inequality/2017/dec/14/inequality-is-not-inevitable-
> but-the-us-experiment-is-a-recipe-for-divergence>.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All the political establishment (very much including the Democrats)
> has to offer is disingenuous 'anti-Trumpism’: <https://medium.com/@
> caityjohnstone/anti-trumpism-is-anti-progressivism-in-
> disguise-9e688e6152e9>.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Americans are coming to understand that they can do better than
> that, but rather clearly not with Democrats. —CGE
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Debra Schrishuhn via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Right you are, Karen. Doug Jones has a decades-long record of
> public service. Getting elected in AL was step 1. Now he needs to truly
> represent (and educate) the people of AL, those who elected him and those
> who opposed him, in a principled and fair manner. It was the Democratic
> grassroots who first embraced Jones--the Democratic leadership hung back
> and only offered support when it looked like he might win.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As we at PDA say, we have to drag the Democratic Party kicking and
> screaming toward more progressive policies. It is a long journey, full of
> setbacks, but we keep trying. Doug Jones offers an opportunity--we would be
> foolish not to take advantage of it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Deb
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 12:11 PM, Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Exactly: As a “Green socialist” I may not support the Democrat
> Party, but given evil of Mr. Moore, and the Republican Party, especially
> their record of impoverishment of the people in Alabama. It’s time for a
> change, Democrat candidate Doug Jones, has an opportunity to do something
> for that state and his constituents, lets see if he is up to the task. As I
> have said previously, he prosecuted the KKK successfully in the 70’s for
> the crimes they committed in the sixties, that everyone else allowed them
> to walk free.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> According to JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Doug Jones’ victory marks the first
> time in 25 years that a Democrat has won a U.S. Senate race in Alabama.
> Tuesday’s special election was highly controversial, pitting Doug Jones
> against Roy Moore, an accused pedophile with a long history of racism,
> sexism, homophobia and Islamophobia.
> >>>>>>> AMY GOODMAN: Tuesday’s vote was highly divided by race and gender,
> with African-American voters, particularly women, largely responsible for
> defeating Roy Moore. Overall, 96 percent of African-American voters voted
> for Doug Jones, with a staggering 98 percent of all black women voting for
> Jones. In contrast, nearly 70 percent of white voters voted for Roy Moore.
> A full 63 percent of white women voted for Moore, despite Moore being
> accused by multiple women of sexually harassing or assaulting them when
> they were teenagers, one as young as 14. Democratic strategist Symone
> Sanders, who served as Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders’ press secretary
> during his presidential campaign, said, quote, “Doug Jones would not have
> won today without the turnout we saw from African-American voters. … Black
> women have been absolutely clear in their support for Democratic policies
> and Democratic candidates. It’s high time for Democrats to invest in that
> effort,” unquote.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 09:15, Debra Schrishuhn <
> deb.pdamerica at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Karen
> >>>>>>>> I agree with you. It is definitely a victory to elect a moderate
> Democrat who is a decent man and citizen over a lecherous, bigoted
> Republican who totally disrespects the rule of law.
> >>>>>>>> Deb
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 9:35 AM, Karen Aram via Peace <
> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In the case of Alabama, it sure as hell is. A state with such
> extreme poverty, that the UN compared conditions in Alabama to that of many
> nations in sub saharan African villages.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 06:58, C G Estabrook via Peace-discuss <
> peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/dec/14/
> inequality-is-not-inevitable-but-the-us-experiment-is-a-
> recipe-for-divergence
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It’s not a victory to elect Democrats instead of Republicans.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to
> strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively
> debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and
> dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking
> going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being
> reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.” [Chomsky]
> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>> Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > https://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/peace-discuss
>
>
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