[Peace] Fwd: Counterpunch: Take to the Streets by Paul Street

Thu Sep 3 02:16:43 UTC 2020

Damn, can't you intellectuals get this revolution figured out SOON???  I'm
getting OLD over here!!

On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:17 PM David Green via Peace <
peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:

In this regard, I think it's important to consider Michael Lind's The New
> Class War, either the short book or the long article in American Affairs.
> We have to begin to digest the material reality that the Democrats are now
> the party of the elite, with it's POC base that it abuses; while the
> majority of the broad working class has over 5 decades migrated to the
> Republicans, where of course they are manipulated and lied to as well.
>
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 4:51 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> David
>>
>> Streets not an idiot, though some of his work of late has been a bit
>> disconcerting.
>>
>> I have to ask, if Trump wins the election should we just settle for four
>> more years of the same? Or is that the time to “subvert the election?” If
>> Street was just representing the neoliberals opposing Trump I would not
>> support his suggestion, but as he has always been an outspoken, admitted
>> socialist I think he is opposing that which is yet to come under our system
>> of exploitation.
>>
>> And, why be so dismissive of the BLM supporters, the Woke? If not them,
>> then who? We certainly can’t expect  right wingers, those organizing
>> militia’s in support of the police and Trump, to consider any viable
>> alternative to what we have now.
>>
>>
>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 12:52, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was actually referring to the late Alexander Cockburn.
>>
>> Anyway, insofar as the current uprising serves the interests of Dems, I
>> agree with your statement. But insofar as the mostly white BLM supporters
>> disdain institutions while fishing for a niche within the professional
>> managerial class, their single issue is the perpetuation of the status quo.
>>
>> So these are the people that Street wants to join him by ironically
>> subverting the election in the cause of anti-fascism. It's just beyond
>> incoherent. He's an idiot at best, but that's been apparent for some time.
>> But hey, he has a book! And St. Clair is promoting it.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 1:55 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>  The sectarian, anarchist, neo liberals, Woke folks focus on single
>>> issues, and removal of Trump by ballot. If he’s re-elected then they will
>>> challenge, and we’ll have 4 more years of distractions, chaos, foreign
>>> interventions, with more people dying both here and abroad.
>>>
>>> Cockburn is a journalist, elderly, not a  revolutionary. Is he a
>>> socialist? Does he recognize the need to end our system of capitalist
>>> exploitation?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:47, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The anarchists are neoliberals. All of these actions are being played
>>> out on bourgeois terrrain. Street just can't accept that this "uprising"
>>> has nothing to do with the working class, with an egalitarian agenda.
>>> Instead of accepting that there's no revolutionary potential here--it has
>>> all been reactionary from the get-go--he goes off the deep end. This is
>>> where the editorship of CP by Frank & St. Clair has got us, very much in
>>> contradiction to Cockburn's more reliable non-sectarian political
>>> instincts. It's become an anarchist Woke + tired Boomer rag.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 12:31 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> David,
>>>>
>>>> I’m sorry I totally disagree with your analysis. If you read the whole
>>>> article which I assume you did, the lunacy is the American people thinking
>>>> just casting a vote every four years and switching from one Party to the
>>>> other is of value.
>>>>
>>>>  Are the Dems., and Biden the remedy for what is taking place in the
>>>> streets, and around the world, our continuing murder of Black people with
>>>> impunity, US imperialism? Of course not and they aren’t even pretending, by
>>>> appealing to the right.
>>>>
>>>> I support mass movements to over turn our system of capitalism, as the
>>>> only means of saving humanity, if we aren’t ready now, then when? After
>>>> Biden is elected? Will liberals go to sleep as they did during the Obama
>>>> administration, or will we be passive and allow another term for Trump?
>>>>
>>>> My preference is non violent protest, strikes, sit downs etc.,
>>>> unfortunately what we’re going to get, in fact getting now, is armed
>>>> militia’s supporting the police shooting protestors. Either from the
>>>> continuing debacle taking place in the streets currently, the economic
>>>> stress that is destroying so many and will only get worse with time, or
>>>> global warming which will continue under either Party. One offering total
>>>> denial which means do nothing, the other cosmetics.
>>>>
>>>> I frankly don’t see it happening because we have no organized vanguard.
>>>> Instead we have many focused on issues which only skim the surface,
>>>> bringing no real change.
>>>>
>>>> To ignore what is happening, and what will only get worse is to be
>>>> complicit.
>>>>
>>>> I have to ask, what is the point of understanding class issues, then
>>>> doing nothing to eliminate the inequality?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:07, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Gosh, this a really absurd view. Street, like Counterpunch, has
>>>> devolved into lunacy.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:26 AM Karen Aram via Peace <
>>>> peace at lists.chambana.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Paul Street: "Get over it, comrades: this is fascism. The notion of
>>>>> leaving the fascist Trump-Pence-Miller-Barr regime in power until January
>>>>> 20, 2021 (assuming it can or will be removed through “normal”
>>>>> constitutional means then) is insane. It’s long past time for a mass and
>>>>> sustained rebellion to collapse the regime as soon as humanly possible. How
>>>>> many COVID-19 deaths by next Inauguration Day, half a million? How many
>>>>> more victims of racist police state, vigilante, and militia violence in the
>>>>> next five months? How many more environmental regulations shredded? How
>>>>> many more calls for racist violence from the mouth and Twitter feed of the
>>>>> wannabe fascist dictator Trump?”
>>>>>
>>>>> "The sooner we act the better. By election day it may be too late.
>>>>> Trump has no intention of leaving and anyone who thinks the Secret Service
>>>>> and/or U.S. military command are going to oust him as he mounts a court
>>>>> challenge to an outcome that doesn’t go his way is engaged in wishful and
>>>>> magical thinking. A sustained mass outpouring may be required before the
>>>>> event to create the possibility for having a reasonably fair election
>>>>> insofar as such a thing is possible in the deeply distorted U.S. party and
>>>>> elections system.”
>>>>>
>>>>> “It’s time to get past all this “it can’t happen here” disbelief about
>>>>> what this fascist presidency and its allies within and outside government
>>>>> are ready, willing, and able to do."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1dcOWDoJYNvj2G39Hk0YsVvlpmpM5LJ_fAyU4QPiluoUqtJvOVXVSgD2XZD89Zfyq0BT2ZnUNPQBf2cVA1zLUqDAF1yB-S5OKFHehJ1txX5hDb2QARRIFd6GTHSNdSJzCkMFD5DVvNoE&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>>
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1aL3POttX9zNy5jYXWMUtodszq21_b7syMi2Smnn5ZvulyyEVQPQrqRsnsO_hq_xCi719r2SyT4CBrntfVAmocVsOwymWx6KkQ==&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> 9-1-2020
>>>>> Take to the Streets
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo6Yl-JnuMh--4XopVP9X6rOeRUHYDuolzYEMLqLdq6_VbWvaYHCczzDRJbeZhS3G-B79dolx80s0wLcfCWBNt0T62aWIXbCiGiUjEF-ISBVIlZyOHaPkG3RqDQ4SFVx9lLa1rxN7ZPAY=&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Paul Street: Trump is deliberately and willfully fanning flames.
>>>>> Trump at the RNC
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo5qM-yUm65kaFmw08vl-qqzxBULZALabEpNaqtdQYT47o6aDzqJVmNNXSLR1BFoPS-2AkTqe7yhmFOQpxLAKBR6dpVd5CuU1SFBQVrb1vWdkQok_oDl-wXVOsK2-RwVOztHwXP1oyWFigHXu6brQvnmKRIonY6Wzo&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Patrick Cockburn: Echoes of Saddam.
>>>>> Escalation in Portland
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo5cwE-eezKVU2QGWp-qXTv2fyncaz9ms92C0MmXL4btGQvI3F1K4Wme7G7kGqlTUTSJSbAWZv5X4gx7Kx_OA-jcIM0IJWYQxn_RTx8wAytj705HaD7jVfD8VaElLx8RANCyvThoFNTpDDiY6kTjuY7g==&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> David Rovics: Here's the backstory of the Portland's conflict.
>>>>> COVID and the Future of Autocrats
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvoanaXZXmWys4b1eZBaNJE3sg0-VBorYeyZO8F-gNcO6MZTOxS9KTs4EV0_4CtAeWW3hbq5RDRPdKjNnUGEPdO78sFIYJ1ibTL4Hwutv6K6e1Q-iTtozSHdEnRE_BPKfH-n0lMwTjT8iaLOu3slc2l-CAtprJBOUqm&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> John Feffer: Democracy in the balance.
>>>>> Fear in America
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo9vZJSVFZsbdw7pkVNYvrVrKIGYygiRWl1lzBWB2-Yd1QMEkHpwk1YQjPrUkr4S2S80K8iNcoCsII8kBsLbfKLdRDkcd-1C2o8_hmfbDzW5zN-XZHV8rnWHH7OdcL3R_cju4kFaW4_UY=&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Evaggelos Vallianatos: Trump and the State.
>>>>> Basketball Outside the Bubble
>>>>> <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo6g7mRuV4kACHIi-rYlmJy0A0frg9XIrfOn_Fzw9Gh9xJrozIFEhDFzimdYu5n8_3wq2rzXy_FQ1bWFsMKWmcHLOyWbjMRjYVreL52bumZoLURxK0JRr7tk9kYbcsVZ7YMnA5gK8gKK53VpXBNipHqJloXM-C2ge3&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Daniel Warner: Sports and protests.
>>>>> Recent Articles
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