[Peace] Fwd: Counterpunch: Take to the Streets by Paul Street

Karen Aram karenaram at hotmail.com
Thu Sep 3 03:28:34 UTC 2020 

 Good one John, LOL

. 
> On Sep 2, 2020, at 19:16, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Damn, can't you intellectuals get this revolution figured out SOON???  I'm getting OLD over here!!
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 8:17 PM David Green via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
> 
> In this regard, I think it's important to consider Michael Lind's The New Class War, either the short book or the long article in American Affairs. We have to begin to digest the material reality that the Democrats are now the party of the elite, with it's POC base that it abuses; while the majority of the broad working class has over 5 decades migrated to the Republicans, where of course they are manipulated and lied to as well.
> 
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 4:51 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> David
> 
> Streets not an idiot, though some of his work of late has been a bit disconcerting. 
> 
> I have to ask, if Trump wins the election should we just settle for four more years of the same? Or is that the time to “subvert the election?” If Street was just representing the neoliberals opposing Trump I would not support his suggestion, but as he has always been an outspoken, admitted socialist I think he is opposing that which is yet to come under our system of exploitation. 
> 
> And, why be so dismissive of the BLM supporters, the Woke? If not them, then who? We certainly can’t expect  right wingers, those organizing militia’s in support of the police and Trump, to consider any viable alternative to what we have now.
> 
> 
>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 12:52, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com <mailto:davidgreen50 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> I was actually referring to the late Alexander Cockburn.
>> 
>> Anyway, insofar as the current uprising serves the interests of Dems, I agree with your statement. But insofar as the mostly white BLM supporters disdain institutions while fishing for a niche within the professional managerial class, their single issue is the perpetuation of the status quo.
>> 
>> So these are the people that Street wants to join him by ironically subverting the election in the cause of anti-fascism. It's just beyond incoherent. He's an idiot at best, but that's been apparent for some time. But hey, he has a book! And St. Clair is promoting it.
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 1:55 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>  The sectarian, anarchist, neo liberals, Woke folks focus on single issues, and removal of Trump by ballot. If he’s re-elected then they will challenge, and we’ll have 4 more years of distractions, chaos, foreign interventions, with more people dying both here and abroad.
>> 
>> Cockburn is a journalist, elderly, not a  revolutionary. Is he a socialist? Does he recognize the need to end our system of capitalist exploitation?
>>   
>>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:47, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com <mailto:davidgreen50 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The anarchists are neoliberals. All of these actions are being played out on bourgeois terrrain. Street just can't accept that this "uprising" has nothing to do with the working class, with an egalitarian agenda. Instead of accepting that there's no revolutionary potential here--it has all been reactionary from the get-go--he goes off the deep end. This is where the editorship of CP by Frank & St. Clair has got us, very much in contradiction to Cockburn's more reliable non-sectarian political instincts. It's become an anarchist Woke + tired Boomer rag.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 12:31 PM Karen Aram <karenaram at hotmail.com <mailto:karenaram at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>> David,
>>> 
>>> I’m sorry I totally disagree with your analysis. If you read the whole article which I assume you did, the lunacy is the American people thinking just casting a vote every four years and switching from one Party to the other is of value.
>>> 
>>>  Are the Dems., and Biden the remedy for what is taking place in the streets, and around the world, our continuing murder of Black people with impunity, US imperialism? Of course not and they aren’t even pretending, by appealing to the right.
>>> 
>>> I support mass movements to over turn our system of capitalism, as the only means of saving humanity, if we aren’t ready now, then when? After Biden is elected? Will liberals go to sleep as they did during the Obama administration, or will we be passive and allow another term for Trump? 
>>> 
>>> My preference is non violent protest, strikes, sit downs etc., unfortunately what we’re going to get, in fact getting now, is armed militia’s supporting the police shooting protestors. Either from the continuing debacle taking place in the streets currently, the economic stress that is destroying so many and will only get worse with time, or global warming which will continue under either Party. One offering total denial which means do nothing, the other cosmetics. 
>>> 
>>> I frankly don’t see it happening because we have no organized vanguard. Instead we have many focused on issues which only skim the surface, bringing no real change. 
>>> 
>>> To ignore what is happening, and what will only get worse is to be complicit. 
>>> 
>>> I have to ask, what is the point of understanding class issues, then doing nothing to eliminate the inequality?
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 2, 2020, at 10:07, David Green <davidgreen50 at gmail.com <mailto:davidgreen50 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Gosh, this a really absurd view. Street, like Counterpunch, has devolved into lunacy.
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Sep 2, 2020, 11:26 AM Karen Aram via Peace <peace at lists.chambana.net <mailto:peace at lists.chambana.net>> wrote:
>>>> Paul Street: "Get over it, comrades: this is fascism. The notion of leaving the fascist Trump-Pence-Miller-Barr regime in power until January 20, 2021 (assuming it can or will be removed through “normal” constitutional means then) is insane. It’s long past time for a mass and sustained rebellion to collapse the regime as soon as humanly possible. How many COVID-19 deaths by next Inauguration Day, half a million? How many more victims of racist police state, vigilante, and militia violence in the next five months? How many more environmental regulations shredded? How many more calls for racist violence from the mouth and Twitter feed of the wannabe fascist dictator Trump?”
>>>> 
>>>> "The sooner we act the better. By election day it may be too late. Trump has no intention of leaving and anyone who thinks the Secret Service and/or U.S. military command are going to oust him as he mounts a court challenge to an outcome that doesn’t go his way is engaged in wishful and magical thinking. A sustained mass outpouring may be required before the event to create the possibility for having a reasonably fair election insofar as such a thing is possible in the deeply distorted U.S. party and elections system.”
>>>> 
>>>> “It’s time to get past all this “it can’t happen here” disbelief about what this fascist presidency and its allies within and outside government are ready, willing, and able to do."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1dcOWDoJYNvj2G39Hk0YsVvlpmpM5LJ_fAyU4QPiluoUqtJvOVXVSgD2XZD89Zfyq0BT2ZnUNPQBf2cVA1zLUqDAF1yB-S5OKFHehJ1txX5hDb2QARRIFd6GTHSNdSJzCkMFD5DVvNoE&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> 
>>>>>  <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1aL3POttX9zNy5jYXWMUtodszq21_b7syMi2Smnn5ZvulyyEVQPQrqRsnsO_hq_xCi719r2SyT4CBrntfVAmocVsOwymWx6KkQ==&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> 9-1-2020 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Take to the Streets <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo6Yl-JnuMh--4XopVP9X6rOeRUHYDuolzYEMLqLdq6_VbWvaYHCczzDRJbeZhS3G-B79dolx80s0wLcfCWBNt0T62aWIXbCiGiUjEF-ISBVIlZyOHaPkG3RqDQ4SFVx9lLa1rxN7ZPAY=&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Paul Street: Trump is deliberately and willfully fanning flames.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Trump at the RNC <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo5qM-yUm65kaFmw08vl-qqzxBULZALabEpNaqtdQYT47o6aDzqJVmNNXSLR1BFoPS-2AkTqe7yhmFOQpxLAKBR6dpVd5CuU1SFBQVrb1vWdkQok_oDl-wXVOsK2-RwVOztHwXP1oyWFigHXu6brQvnmKRIonY6Wzo&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Patrick Cockburn: Echoes of Saddam.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Escalation in Portland <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo5cwE-eezKVU2QGWp-qXTv2fyncaz9ms92C0MmXL4btGQvI3F1K4Wme7G7kGqlTUTSJSbAWZv5X4gx7Kx_OA-jcIM0IJWYQxn_RTx8wAytj705HaD7jVfD8VaElLx8RANCyvThoFNTpDDiY6kTjuY7g==&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> David Rovics: Here's the backstory of the Portland's conflict.
>>>>> 
>>>>> COVID and the Future of Autocrats <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvoanaXZXmWys4b1eZBaNJE3sg0-VBorYeyZO8F-gNcO6MZTOxS9KTs4EV0_4CtAeWW3hbq5RDRPdKjNnUGEPdO78sFIYJ1ibTL4Hwutv6K6e1Q-iTtozSHdEnRE_BPKfH-n0lMwTjT8iaLOu3slc2l-CAtprJBOUqm&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> John Feffer: Democracy in the balance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fear in America <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo9vZJSVFZsbdw7pkVNYvrVrKIGYygiRWl1lzBWB2-Yd1QMEkHpwk1YQjPrUkr4S2S80K8iNcoCsII8kBsLbfKLdRDkcd-1C2o8_hmfbDzW5zN-XZHV8rnWHH7OdcL3R_cju4kFaW4_UY=&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Evaggelos Vallianatos: Trump and the State.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Basketball Outside the Bubble <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001q5QtXZlpRhDEROfnJSJ5Rbo8_PnFYCcfkBaQ4h_AltUkkpdpgICQ1YpVw8nAptvo6g7mRuV4kACHIi-rYlmJy0A0frg9XIrfOn_Fzw9Gh9xJrozIFEhDFzimdYu5n8_3wq2rzXy_FQ1bWFsMKWmcHLOyWbjMRjYVreL52bumZoLURxK0JRr7tk9kYbcsVZ7YMnA5gK8gKK53VpXBNipHqJloXM-C2ge3&c=iES44Z-O34UB50sk9Hw0q3aGQDRxRKSv_kaj_QtoYtVxttbGUFc-UA==&ch=PI63pt_J-pGC1mEOFFsRvEKhjBv8awTQZdXJVt1M5CA_rQupdKSH7w==>
>>>>> Daniel Warner: Sports and protests.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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