[IMC-Tech] Re: "crow" email list.

[Randall Cotton]

Zach writes: "I'm eager to learn the details of this story."

I'm really not sure why you decided to disable the crow mailing list. There are
no details that aren't out in the open here and available to you. In fact, you
should have them all in e-mail sent to you.

Here is a review:
I originally requested this list be created in an e-mail message to you as
follows:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randall Cotton" <recotton at earthlink.net>
To: "Zachary C. Miller" <zach at chambana.net>
Cc: "Carl Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:03 PM
Subject: new mailing list for chambana.net


: Hi Zach,
:
: Hope all is well with you.
:
: Could you initialize a new mailman mailing list on lists.chambana.net? The
list
: name is "crow" - Committee for the Reform of WEFT. It's for a group of WEFT
: folks and others that Carl Estabrook is organizing (he is carboned on this
: note). I can do all the list configuration and subscription to begin with,
: though I might hand it off to someone else later on as the group matures.
:
: Let me know if someone else is handling mailing list creation duties these
days
: and I'll just follow up with them.
:
: Take care,
: R

When I didn't hear from you for a couple days, I remembered that Dan Fischer
seemed to be stepping in to do the sysadmin work and that you seemed to have
been stepping back from these duties. So I e-mailed Dan as follows:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Randall Cotton" <recotton at earthlink.net>
To: "dan blah" <dan.blah at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 11:13 PM
Subject: Fw: new mailing list for chambana.net


: Hi Dan,
:
: I thought I'd check with you on this. I requested a new mailing list from Zach
a
: couple days ago, but come to think of it, my impression is that Zach is
pulling
: away from sysadmin stuff on the IMC server (I've not heard back from him) and
: you seem to be stepping in. So perhaps you're the right person to send this
: request to. Can you help?
:
: Thanks
: R
:
:
: ----- Original Message ----- 
: From: "Randall Cotton" <recotton at earthlink.net>
: To: "Zachary C. Miller" <zach at chambana.net>
: Cc: "Carl Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
: Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:03 PM
: Subject: new mailing list for chambana.net
:
:
: : Hi Zach,
: :
: : Hope all is well with you.
: :
: : Could you initialize a new mailman mailing list on lists.chambana.net? The
: list
: : name is "crow" - Committee for the Reform of WEFT. It's for a group of WEFT
: : folks and others that Carl Estabrook is organizing (he is carboned on this
: : note). I can do all the list configuration and subscription to begin with,
: : though I might hand it off to someone else later on as the group matures.
: :
: : Let me know if someone else is handling mailing list creation duties these
: days
: : and I'll just follow up with them.
: :
: : Take care,
: : R
: :
: :

Dan then responded graciously by creating the list and sending the following
response, which he copied to you:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dan blah" <dan.blah at gmail.com>
To: "Randall Cotton" <recotton at earthlink.net>
Cc: "Zachary C. Miller" <zach at chambana.net>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: new mailing list for chambana.net


: Hey Randall,
: no problem... you should recieve a notice from the mail server shortly
: after this email with login information.
: On 6/4/06, Randall Cotton <recotton at earthlink.net> wrote:
: > Hi Dan,
: >
: > I thought I'd check with you on this. I requested a new mailing list from
Zach a
: > couple days ago, but come to think of it, my impression is that Zach is
pulling
: > away from sysadmin stuff on the IMC server (I've not heard back from him)
and
: > you seem to be stepping in. So perhaps you're the right person to send this
: > request to. Can you help?
: >
: > Thanks
: > R
: >
: >
: > ----- Original Message -----
: > From: "Randall Cotton" <recotton at earthlink.net>
: > To: "Zachary C. Miller" <zach at chambana.net>
: > Cc: "Carl Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>
: > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 6:03 PM
: > Subject: new mailing list for chambana.net
: >
: >
: > : Hi Zach,
: > :
: > : Hope all is well with you.
: > :
: > : Could you initialize a new mailman mailing list on lists.chambana.net? The
: > list
: > : name is "crow" - Committee for the Reform of WEFT. It's for a group of
WEFT
: > : folks and others that Carl Estabrook is organizing (he is carboned on this
: > : note). I can do all the list configuration and subscription to begin with,
: > : though I might hand it off to someone else later on as the group matures.
: > :
: > : Let me know if someone else is handling mailing list creation duties these
: > days
: > : and I'll just follow up with them.
: > :
: > : Take care,
: > : R
: > :
: > :
: >
: >
:
:
: -- 
: Daniel

Zach, you say that the crow list "was listed in /etc/aliases as being a "weft"
list which is not the case." How is this not a WEFT list? It was requested by
WEFT members for the purpose of a committee that works to forward the best
interests of WEFT (in the same way that, say, the Engineering Committee does). I
offered to set this list up for Carl Estabrook, who is putting together the
Committee for the Reform of WEFT (CROW) in the same way that I offered to set up
the weft-eng list last Spring for John Coleman who shepherds the Engineering
Committee. There wasn't a problem when I set up the weft-eng list back then. The
only difference, it seems, is that "representatives of WEFT" have told you they
want it removed. Who are these favored "representatives"? Did you disable this
list because you or some WEFT volunteer(s) that you favor object to this list?
Honestly, Zach, please step back a minute and try to view this objectively -
can't you see how your action here is a bit arbitrary and autocratic?

Could you please restore the crow mailing list? And if not, could you at least
be forthcoming as to why not? In particular, who has requested it be disabled
and why are you heeding that request?

Thanks
R

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Zachary C. Miller" <zach at chambana.net>
To: <imc-tech at ucimc.org>
Cc: <c-bee1 at itg.uiuc.edu>; <carl at newsfromneptune.com>; <recotton at earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:52 PM
Subject: "crow" email list.


: Who created the "crow" mailman email lists on chambana.net?
:
: The subscribers to this list were as follows:
: c-bee1 at itg.uiuc.edu
: carl at newsfromneptune.com
: recotton at earthlink.net
:
: It was listed in /etc/aliases as being a "weft" list which is not the case.
:
: Representatives of WEFT have informed me that they did not authorize
: the creation of this list or it's use under their domain. Apparently
: the list was being advertised as crow at weft.org.
:
: Our system is extremely open because it is configured on the basis of
: users respecting the boundaries of other organizations that share the
: system. There is a cooperative strategy of respect. Rather than set up
: a lot of firewalls between clients we've got things pretty wide open.
: This list was clearly an abuse of this leniency.
:
: If someone (presumably Randall Cotton) is paying chambana.net for the
: right to have an email list on the server then he must advertise it as
: being from @lists.chambana.net OR
: @somedomainthatheowns.whatever....NOT as @weft.org. Only duly
: appointed WEFT representatives should be using an @weft.org address.
: If no one was paying for (or at least agreed and contracted to pay)
: this mailing list then it shouldn't have been created.
:
: The archives of the list have not been deleted and the list can be
: recreated once we straighten out the policy issues. I have removed the
: list from /etc/aliases and run rmlist on it.
:
: When new lists are created, the creator of the list should report
: creation of new lists  to imc-tech. I do not believe that happened in
: this case.
:
: It would be great if someone could look into how to set up virtual
: domains for mailman/postfix so that we can close the possibility of
: this kind of cross-domain address usage. It is definitely quite
: doable, just one more thing I don't have time to take care of.
:
: I'm eager to learn the details of this story.