[UCIMC-Tech] [IMC] Bring the U-C IMC's only reliable historical record back to the public please.

Tue Feb 23 22:06:43 CST 2010

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Hi everyone, especially Dan and Zach, good to hear from you both,

Sorry to be slow on weighing in on this. Sorry too to have deflected you
the other day, Dan, I was just tired and didn't know what you were
talking about.

I didn't have much to do with the list migration, but I'm sure the
closing of the archive is just an unintentional consequence of the
changeover. I am strongly in favor of the archives of the IMC list, not
just from before the switchover but for the current list as well, being
public. Brian Duggan and I ran through a number of possible technical
approaches at the Tech Group meeting tonight, which I plan to repost in
detail to the IMC-Tech list. Unless there's a reason that anyone thinks
the archives of the current version of the IMC list shouldn't be public
as well (I do not remember if there was a specific policy decision on
that), I would suggest that this be regarded as purely technical problem
and that Tech flip the archives as a whole back to public. I believe
this would solve the overall problem without the need to even take it to
Steering. Barring that, hopefully Tech will bring to Steering a
selection of possible implementations with advantages, disadvantages,
and amount of work involved, as well as an overall recommendation from
Tech on the best solution from a policy standpoint as well as technical.

I would also give kudos to Chris, Nicole, Elizabeth, and everyone else
involved for planning and implementing a difficult list reorganization
that except for this minor and hopefully easily resolved problem went
off without a hitch. I know the closing of the archives was never
intended, and now that it's pointed out it can be swiftly rectified.

On 02/22/2010 09:14 PM, dan blah wrote:
> Hey Chris,
> 
> For condensing my book ;) Comments below:
> 
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Chris Ritzo <chris.ritzo at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dan, I'm going to attempt to restate the technical details-  you're
>> proposing:
>>
>> - imc at lists.chambana.net be reinstated as a public list, archives open,
>> membership open to anyone
> Open archives, yes.  Open for the public to sign up and use, no.  The
> use of imc at lists.chambana.net would be what I believe is
> imc-members at chambana.net.  If thats so, they should be combined to a
> single list.
> 
>> -- posts to imc at lists.chambana.net get forwarded to both imc-spokes@ and
>> imc-members@
>>
> Posts to imc at lists.chambana.net get forwarded to what ever list is
> handing responding on behalf of the IMC (would be the
> imc-spokes at lists.chambana.net list right?)
> 
>> - imc-spokes at lists.chambana.net gets created and used for spokes discussion.
>>
> Yes, assuming this is the current functionality of the
> imc at lists.chambana.net mailing list.
> 
>> You didn't mention this list, but I'm assuming---
>> - imc-events@ which was created in october for local events posting would
>> remain in place and is a public list anyone can join to receive updates on
>> concerts, art exhibits, etc. happening at the IMC.
>>
> For sure, I think this is a great idea.  Just out of curiosity, is
> this basically an announce list for the shows group?
> 
>> -CR
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 6:02 PM, dan blah <blah at chambana.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Over the past few months various members have contacted me to discuss
>>> our organizations history.  Very often the conversation will move
>>> towards concerns of the U-C IMC moving further and further from its
>>> original flat member empowered and controlled adhocracy to more of a
>>> centrally controlled by a few bureaucracy.  Not being the active
>>> member I was, I often quickly ask for a cite of assertions on the IMC
>>> General list (imc at lists.chambana.net) where the IMC's Steering Group
>>> and other working groups had been posting their minutes.  This mailing
>>> list had for a decade served as the organizations most reliable
>>> historical record.  Supporting that role, I tell them how important it
>>> was for me to go all the way to the beginning of that list's archive
>>> before even becoming a member.  They almost always state their
>>> intentions to do the same after being told it contains the public
>>> notes on how the U-C IMC got its name, who's basement the first
>>> meetings were in, and all the other eclectic blocks that built up to
>>> the building we all enjoy now.
>>>
>>> For me and others who were not part of those early chapters of the U-C
>>> IMC, having the history there to read, review, and build onto formed
>>> the core of how we developed our sense of ownership of the U-C IMC.
>>> In this current time at the U-C IMC where many of the founding members
>>> and past active members have moved on, access to this history takes on
>>> an even greater importance.  Unfortunately, that history is no longer
>>> available to the public or even most members.  Currently, it is only
>>> available to 35 U-C IMC members.
>>>
>>> Thanks to the IMC-Tech folks catching me up, I understand why the list
>>> is currently private and I am partly at fault for failing to focus on
>>> the discussion when it took place last year.  All that aside, current
>>> active local U-C IMC members are still asking me questions about our
>>> history and now I have no way to cite my knowledge and they have no
>>> way to learn as much as they want and should be able to about the U-C
>>> IMC.  To maintain one of the core tenants of being an Indymedia
>>> Independent Media Center that embodies so much more than just being a
>>> community center, those archives and future notes and discussions that
>>> define our organization must be available to all members and the
>>> public.  I propose that we re-open up the archives that were public
>>> for nearly a decade and continue to ensure Steering and all other
>>> working group minutes continue to be public (as they also were for the
>>> same decade) while respecting and ensuring those needs that lead to
>>> its privatization remain met.
>>>
>>> The technical problems around this make the practical implementation
>>> of this a bit tricky.  I apologize, the rest of this is a little
>>> geeky.  As Bob proposed in October, instead of re-purposing the imc@
>>> mailing list to be the private spokes and core member only list it is
>>> now, an imc-spokes@ mailing list should have been created and used for
>>> this purpose.  My assumption is that there was concern about the imc@
>>> being the most common way people contact the U-C IMC and because of
>>> this it was easiest to just restrict the imc@ list associated with
>>> that alias.  What I would have proposed is that the imc@ address via
>>> aliasing be forwarded to an imc-spokes@ mailing list and the old
>>> public imc@ mailing list be accessible by emailing imc-members at .  This
>>> would've preserved the highly search indexed public imc@ mailing list
>>> archives, allowed a public list for recording as in the past, and
>>> allowed a restricted private list for more internal functions.  I
>>> propose that we do this now.  The main issue to this at this point is
>>> moving those private messages currently on the imc@ mailing list to
>>> the new imc-spokes@ mailing list and combining the imc-members@
>>> mailing list with the older busier imc@ mailing list.
>>>
>>> All members, lets discuss!  IMC-Tech Group members, please lets
>>> discuss what holes exist in my tech proposal on the IMC-Tech Group
>>> list.
>>>
>>> In solidarity,
>>> --
>>> Dan Blah
>>>
>>> --
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://lists.chambana.net/mailman/listinfo/imc
>>
>>
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>>
>>
> 
> 
> Cheers,

- -- 
Josh King
- --
"I am an Anarchist not because I believe Anarchism is the final goal,
but because there is no such thing as a final goal." -Rudolf Rocker
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