[Peace-discuss] A conservative on anti-war movements

[David Green]

Sometimes I think that Hentoff supports civil
liberties just so he can claim that he does have
principles.

--- "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:

> But anti-Semitism and nativism are not the
> principles that the
> paleos offer for their opposition to the war.
> 
> Similarly, Hentoff's support for civil liberties
> doesn't
> depend on his support for the war or Israel.
> 
> These are examples of what on News from Neptune
> we've called
> The Incompleteness Principle: "Nobody can be wrong
> all the
> time."  --CGE
> 
> 
> ---- Original message ----
> >Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: David Green <davegreen84 at yahoo.com>  
> >Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] A conservative on
> anti-war
> movements  
> >To: Peace Discuss
> <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> >
> >Yes, but I'm concerned with the "principles" of
> people
> >like Pat Buchanan, whose opposition to the war is
> >based on another form of chauvinism. If we don't
> want
> >to identify with the anti-Semites (such as they
> are)
> >who oppose our alliance with Israel, why do we want
> to
> >identify with nativists, not to mention the native
> >libertarians who never connect the dots of
> government
> >power and corporate power? This relates to the
> problem
> >I have with Hentoff as a civil libertarian who
> >supported the war, and supports Israel.
> >
> >David
> >
> >--- "C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> Several points, Mort:
> >> 
> >> [1] It's surprising that you should start with
> >> MoveOn, a
> >> Democratic party front group that is thoroughly
> >> liberal in my
> >> lexicon -- and their position on the war is "stay
> >> the course"!
> >> 
> >> [2] I'd make a distinction between liberal and
> left,
> >> fundamentally on the point of support for or
> >> opposition to
> >> capitalism.  All of the elected Democratic
> >> politicians in the
> >> country (including Bernie Sanders, tho' he would
> >> deny it) fall
> >> into the first group; the Progressive, Z Mag,
> >> Counterpunch
> >> etc. (I have doubts about The Nation), into the
> >> second group.
> >>  On that reading, it's almost exact that the left
> >> opposes the
> >> war and liberals don't.
> >> 
> >> [3] Where are the brave actions of the
> "progressive
> >> caucus" in
> >> the House against the war?  Only now do we get a
> a
> >> hat-in-hand
> >> petition from some of them, asking the president
> >> please to
> >> tell them how and when he's going to get out of
> >> Iraq. (It's
> >> true that with the exception of Ron Paul and one
> or
> >> two
> >> others, the paleo-conservative position is not
> >> represented in
> >> the House.)
> >> 
> >> My point is that principled opposition to the war
> >> (and not
> >> just worries that it isn't working very well) is
> >> found among
> >> paleo-conservatives (what I posted was an
> example)
> >> and on the
> >> left -- and not among liberals.  --CGE
> >> 
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