[Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus

Ricky Baldwin baldwinricky at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 20 14:00:34 CDT 2007 

FIRST, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ORCHESTRATED
> > 9/11!
> > > > IF YOU CANNOT SEE THAT,
> > > > NONE OF THE EVENTS FOLLOWING IT REALLY MAKE MUCH SENSE!

Not so.

The events that followed make perfect (horrific) sense if you've been paying attention for the
last couple of decades, or even less.  The Bush Administration with less popular support than
almost any president in recent memory, from day one, saw an opportunity and seized on it.  They
immediately began to implement the agenda they'd been pushing for years, which is why events were
able to unfold so quickly.  All they needed was a bit of PR/public opinion management, which -
given the resources available to them and their class - was not that tough.  After all, they don't
even need to fool anything close to a majority of the population (obviously), just enough to keep
the agenda moving.  This largely involves making the case to elites that they are handling the
situation in an acceptable fashion, but of course some wider cooperation is also needed.

Why did the attacks of 9-11-01 happen?  The technical term, I understand, is 'blowback' - the
unintended consequences of nefarious foreign policy activity, such as the "Afghan trap" the US
government set for the Soviets way back when, in the process helping set up the networks and train
some of the characters that have become more familiar since 9-11-01.

And of the people (the many people) who are now spreading this theory of the Bush Administration
somehow orchestrating the 9-11-01 attacks - without getting caught! even though they couldn't even
manage to plant 'weapons of mass destruction' in Iraq once the country was occupied - none to my
knowledge has provided a single scrap of evidence.  It's all speculation and assumption based on
things they claim don't make sense in the official story, as if there were only two possible
explanations - eliminate one, and you're left with the other.  

That's about the level of logic the Bush Administration expects us to accept.  We shouldn't.

Ricky 

--- n.dahlheim at mchsi.com wrote:

> Perhaps you may be right about local communities and socialist communes becoming corrupted, but
> I 
> don't see any other basis for radical movements---the populace is soooo stupified and addled I
> just don't 
> see from where revolutionary fervor will come.  The only thing that will breed a revolution (if
> it can ever 
> organize) would be a total economic collapse, in which case violence may lurch out of control.
> 
>   Nick
> 
> 
> ----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
> From:    "Laurie at advancenet.net" <laurie at advancenet.net>
> To:      <n.dahlheim at mchsi.com>
> Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> Date:    Thu, 20 Sep 2007 04:51:19 +0000
> 
> > Being new to this list, I am not sure how it works and if this email is
> > coming via the list or via private email to me.  I am assuming that it is
> > coming via private email.
> > 
> > In response, I would two points.  
> > 
> > First, not only are there no revolutionaries when it comes to actions; but
> > there are no true radicals (excepting a very small contingent of thinkers)
> > when it comes to thinking either. Who calls basic constitutive premises and
> > presuppositions into question and treats them as problematic?  Having done
> > so, who is using counterfactual arguments based on gedanken experiments to
> > test those assumptions and see what underlying empirical conditions are
> > needed to support those premises and how if we change those conditions
> > alternative premises can be postulated upon which alternative worlds of
> > reality can be constructed?  If one sticks with the currently conceived
> > factual world of reality, one can only tinker with things and make reforms
> > around the periphery to the preferred rules of the game and not the
> > constitutive rules of the game.
> > 
> > Second, I doubt if "Activism should be intensely local and focused on
> > building strong local communities of peace and justice; reforming the
> > national system is undoubtedly impossible at this juncture" as you contend.
> > It seems to me that reforming the local system and communities is equally
> > impossible since the existence and survival of said communities are totally
> > dependent on the wider and larger systems and communities. Activism these
> > days is only effective at reforming preferred rules of the game but not at
> > changing basic constitutive rules at any system level; I am afraid that it
> > will require extreme radical and revolutionary actions that do not accept or
> > fall within the commonly accepted rules of engagement and force people to
> > react in ways that they may not otherwise be inclined to.  Intimidation may
> > be required to bring significant change; but such actions as this or suicide
> > bombing runs against the grain of Western reform-minded activists, who would
> > abandon SDS types of strategies and tactics.  Unfortunately, this sort of
> > activism may be what is called for if any sort of significant change is
> > possible at a local community or national system level. Utopian socialist
> > communities of the 1800's in the US and the communes and collectives of the
> > 1960 in the US were unable to survive in a hostile environment without being
> > coopted or becoming the monster they were against in order to fight and beat
> > the monster they were against.
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: n.dahlheim at mchsi.com [mailto:n.dahlheim at mchsi.com]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 11:17 PM
> > > To: Laurie at advancenet.net
> > > Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> > > 
> > > Laurie,
> > >     I like the way you think.  The masses are generally distracted with
> > > making ends meet and the vapid
> > > frivolity of our infotainment culture.  The progressives who generally
> > > read are most definitely not
> > > revolutionaries, but people who benefit from the system.  That explains
> > > why they will never really look at
> > > 9/11 as it reveals the frightful reality present once the curtain is
> > > peeled back.  I think you expressed it
> > > really well.  We don't have any revolutionaries, and it doesn't look
> > > like any are forthcoming.  I think we will
> > > just have to take care of our own and watch the system collapse under
> > > its own weight.  Activism should be
> > > intensely local and focused on building strong local communities of
> > > peace and justice; reforming the
> > > national system is undoubtedly impossible at this juncture.
> > >            Nick
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
> > > From:    "Laurie at advancenet.net" <laurie at advancenet.net>
> > > To:      <Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> > > Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> > > Date:    Wed, 19 Sep 2007 04:02:17 +0000
> > > 
> > > > > We are way behind the 8-ball folks
> > > >
> > > > When were we in front of the 8-ball or even with it?
> > > >
> > > > > The David Ray Griffin books point
> > > > > the finger at the Administration
> > > > > pretty convincingly.  What I don't get is why so many of you won't
> > > look
> > > > > at that evidence.
> > > >
> > > > Part of the problem is that too many progressives are reformers and
> > > not
> > > > revolutionaries; they tend to be intellectuals who write and read
> > > books
> > > > aimed at preaching to the choir and feeding their own pockets and
> > > egos
> > > > rather than engaging in any direct actions. It is all an intellectual
> > > > exercise for them and those who they engage in their discussions and
> > > > conversations with.  The other part of the problem is that the mass
> > > audience
> > > > in the U.S. are not intellectuals; they do not read or care to engage
> > > in
> > > > serious analysis.  They prefer entertaining television, movies, and
> > > > graphics.  Hence, they do not read or regard your critical analyses
> > > and data
> > > > - much less understand it.
> > > >
> > > > The opposition among the masses tend to be dogmatic believers in
> > > their
> > > > religion of capitalistic and democratic dogma along with
> > > fundamentalist and
> > > > literal Christianity and Western European white superiority.  Hence,
> > > they
> > > > will not read or accept anything that does not fit their pre-
> > > conceptions or
> > > > the rituals and myths of their leaders.
> > > >
> > > > >  If we are still thinking about elections and Congress, we are a
> > > joke.
> > > >
> > > > We have always been a joke; why is this instance different.
> > > Elections are
> > > > not Democracy; they are only a mechanism for circulating elites with
> > > respect
> > > > to positions of authority.  Representative democracy in a republic
> > > such as
> > > > the U.S is an excuse following the polls when it is convenient and
> > > ignoring
> > > > the populous when it is not.  Representative democracy is a spectator
> > > sport
> > > > for the masses and participatory entertainment for elites who only
> > > represent
> > > > their own established vested interests and organizational survival.
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net [mailto:peace-
> > > discuss-
> > > > > bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of n.dahlheim at mchsi.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:08 PM
> > > > > To: Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> > > > >
> > > > > We are way behind the 8-ball folks...  In National Security
> > > > > Presidential Directive 51, the Administration
> > > > > has already seized emergency powers a la Hitler in 1933....
> > > Congress
> > > > > is feckless.  When will the people
> > > > > on this list even wake up to 911!!!  The David Ray Griffin books
> > > point
> > > > > the finger at the Administration
> > > > > pretty convincingly.  What I don't get is why so many of you won't
> > > look
> > > > > at that evidence.  Don't you
> > > > > think that the Admimistration had a lot to gain from 911?  Havent'
> > > they
> > > > > and their allies in banking, oil,
> > > > > and defense made billions and trillions off this "War on Terror?"
> > > Come
> > > > > on, 19 Arab hijackers completely
> > > > > fooled a $13 trillion dollar defense system with the most advanced
> > > > > radar and sophisticated air radar
> > > > > system in the word?  Give me a break.  Yeah, and jet fuel caused
> > > the
> > > > > towers to fall...  What about WTC
> > > > > 7?
> > > > >
> > > > >  If we are still thinking about elections and Congress, we are a
> > > joke.
> > > > > Other action is needed; the
> > > > > Republic and democracy is pretty much dead.  Reason has disappeared
> > > in
> > > > > the wake of consumerism and
> > > > > entertainment... We need alternative ideas, and I want help in
> > > forming
> > > > > them; but, we need the right
> > > > > paradigms first.   FIRST, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION ORCHESTRATED
> > > 9/11!
> > > > > IF YOU CANNOT SEE THAT,
> > > > > NONE OF THE EVENTS FOLLOWING IT REALLY MAKE MUCH SENSE!
> > > > >
> > > > >                       Nick
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------  Original Message:  ---------------------
> > > > > From:    Patricia Fettig <pfettig at prairienet.org>
> > > > > To:      peace at lists.chambana.net, peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
> > > > > Subject: [Peace-discuss] Restore Habeas Corpus
> > > > > Date:    Wed, 19 Sep 2007 00:18:13 +0000
> > > > >
> > > > > > This message was sent to me. I think it is worth considering.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pat
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This week the Senate is going to vote on Leahy-Specter-Dodd's
> > > > > > Restoration of Habeas Corpus Act.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have a very real chance to rollback the Bush Administration's
> > > > > assault
> > > > > > on the Constitution in a very fundamental way.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The vote is going to be a close one, and could very well come
> > > down to
> > > > > > grassroots participation and pressure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First step: Sign on as a citizen co-sponsor of the bill and ask
> > > five
> > > > > > people to do the same.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  From there, we'll receive direction on which Senators need to be
> > > > > > persuaded to vote YES on this critical piece of legislation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://restore-habeas.org/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://restore-habeas.org
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
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> > > > > _______________________________________________
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