[Peace-discuss] War crime

[Laurie at advancenet.net]

>It never occurred to me that that the meaning of hypocrisy should be be
applied to history. I usually apply it >to the statements of people. 

 

Hmmm!  Interesting!  I never said that hypocrisy was or should be applied to
history, although I see no reason why that should not be possible.  I did
say that, in light of history, the substantive meaning and significance of
the content of the statement is hypocritical.  It appears on the face to say
one thing while in light of the historic record it is really not the case. 

 

>Moreover, I would say that cynicism is not the same as skepticism (which I
would agree is vital for a >thinking rational person), so your allusion of
Candide seems far off the mark.  Cynicism" ("unbounded", no >less!) for me
implies a destructive pessimism, not allowing for honesty or sincerity on
the part of others.  

 

So, according to the implications of what you state, there is a
non-destructive pessimism.  I would appreciate it if you could illustrate
each for me and note what distinguishes them.  If one's experiences suggest
that people are not totally honest or sincere a majority or even a high
proportion of the time, I think it is justifiable to not allow for honesty
and sincerity on their part as a working premise; therefore cynicism is
justifiable and reasonable.  When one lives in an irrational world isn't it
rational to be irrational?  But cynicism can be applied to things other than
people.  I can be cynical about experiences, appearances, behaviors,
policies, etc. independent of what I think about the actors or people
involved.  

 

If  I see and experience the world as not only not being the best of all
possible worlds but standing not possibility of ever being so, would I not
be like Candide if I were deny my experiences and put an optimistic spin on
them.  Call it the way I see and experience it is to make an observation
with or without a value judgment even if that view is pessimistic; to do
otherwise is to be Candide-like.  Thus the reference as far as I am
concerned is not far off mark.  As for your dictionary definitions of
"cynic," they are just that. I may distrust, be suspicious of, doubt people,
their motives, and sincerity as an operative working premise; but I do not
necessarily despise anyone or anything.   If one does not sarcastically
doubts or despises human sincerity or merit but merely doubts human
sincerity or merit, does it cease to be cynicism and start to be something
else?  For me, "cynicism" is a combination of pessimism, skepticism, and
distrust until proven otherwise.

 

But as you have noted, we are just playing with words.

 

 

From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Morton K.
Brussel
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:41 PM
To: Laurie at advancenet.net
Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] War crime

 

It never occurred to me that that the meaning of hypocrisy should be be
applied to history. I usually apply it to the statements of people. 

 

On Sep 26, 2007, at 6:02 PM, Laurie at advancenet.net wrote:





While I am not going to question the

originator of the quotes and say that Jackson made them hypocritically; I

will say that the substantive meaning and significance of the statement in

light of history is hypocritical and serves to cover up the fact that in the

real world might does tend to make right in real politics and the spouting

of moral platitudes and absolute transcendental standards does not change

that empirically.

 

Why should my cynicism have bounds?  Are you suggesting that I should play

the role of Candide and go around saying and believing that we live in the

best of all possible worlds?

 

 

Moreover, I would say that cynicism is not the same as skepticism (which I
would agree is vital for a thinking rational person), so your allusion of
Candide seems far off the mark.  Cynicism" ("unbounded", no less!) for me
implies a destructive pessimism, not allowing for honesty or sincerity on
the part of others.  

In fact, the Oxford dictionary defines a cynic as one "who sarcastically
doubts or despises human sincerity or merit." It also gives the quote from
Meredith (which I suppose you would reject), that "Cynics are only happy in
making the world as barren to others as they have made it for themselves."

 

We are playing with words.

 

 --mkb

 

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