[Peace-discuss] Not that Obama's any better
Stuart Levy
slevy at ncsa.uiuc.edu
Tue Apr 29 10:02:48 CDT 2008
On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 09:38:54AM -0500, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> Liberals entertain the fantasy that reality is subject to their wills.
>
> Solipsism is a constant temptation to them.
I may regret this but will say...
Hmm, on two counts:
Haven't we just been arguing that "liberal" is
a term so widely (ab)used that it doesn't mean much?
Would you want to claim that being "better" is a matter
of objective reality on which all observers must agree?
>
> Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>> "True" only in YOUR reality, Carl :-)
>> */"C. G. Estabrook" <galliher at uiuc.edu>/* wrote:
>> No, the subject line is explained by the fact that it's true, and
>> the opposite
>> implication is false.
>> Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>> > Three hours, huh. Well, maybe that explains the subject line,
>> then. That
>> > kinda nasty stuff rubs off real easy.
>> > --Jenifer
>> >
>> > */"C. G. Estabrook" /* wrote:
>> >
>> > But it's important that a certain primitive psychological splitting
>> > doesn't lead
>> > people to imagine that Hillary's awfulness makes Obama look good.
>> >
>> > And BTW I had a long auto trip last week and listened to Limbaugh's
>> > full three-
>> > hour show. It's interesting to hear how he does it. What he says is
>> > nuts and
>> > worse, but he has polished a rhetorical form that's supple and
>> > inventive. It's
>> > good audio theatre. --CGE
>> >
>> >
>> > Jenifer Cartwright wrote:
>> > > Good article, Carl. Thanks for posting it. However, the subject
>> line
>> > > should have read "Hillary Strangelove" as that's what the
>> > editorial is
>> > > about. "Not that Obama's any better" is off-topic and soooo
>> > totally Rush
>> > > Limbaugh/Bill O'Reilly.
>> > > --Jenifer
>> > >
>> > > */"C. G. Estabrook" /* wrote:
>> > >
>> > > GLOBE EDITORIAL
>> > > Hillary Strangelove
>> > > April 27, 2008
>> > >
>> > > AMERICANS have learned to take with a grain of salt much of the
>> > > rhetoric in a
>> > > campaign like the current Democratic donnybrook between Hillary
>> > > Clinton and
>> > > Barack Obama. Still, there are some red lines that should never
>> be
>> > > crossed.
>> > > Clinton did so Tuesday morning, the day of the Pennsylvania
>> primary,
>> > > when she
>> > > told ABC's "Good Morning America" that, if she were president,
>> she
>> > > would
>> > > "totally obliterate" Iran if Iran attacked Israel.
>> > >
>> > > This foolish and dangerous threat was muted in domestic media
>> > > coverage. But it
>> > > reverberated in headlines around the world.
>> > >
>> > > Responding with understatement to a question in the British
>> House of
>> > > Lords, the
>> > > foreign minister responsible for Asia, Lord Mark Malloch-Brown,
>> > said of
>> > > Clinton's implication of a mushroom cloud over Iran: "While it is
>> > > reasonable to
>> > > warn Iran of the consequences of it continuing to develop nuclear
>> > > weapons and
>> > > what those real consequences bring to its security, it is
>> probably
>> > > not prudent
>> > > in today's world to threaten to obliterate any other country and
>> in
>> > > many cases
>> > > civilians resident in such a country."
>> > >
>> > > A less restrained reaction came from an editorial in the
>> Saudi-based
>> > > paper Arab
>> > > News. Being neighbors of Iran, the Saudis and the other Gulf
>> Arabs
>> > > have the most
>> > > to fear from Iran's nuclear program and its drive to become the
>> > > dominant power
>> > > in the Gulf.
>> > >
>> > > But precisely because they are most at risk from Iran's regional
>> > > ambitions, the
>> > > Saudis want a carefully considered American approach to Iran, one
>> > > that balances
>> > > firmness and diplomatic engagement.
>> > >
>> > > The Saudi paper called Clinton's nuclear threat "the foreign
>> > > politics of the
>> > > madhouse," saying, "it demonstrates the same doltish ignorance
>> > that has
>> > > distinguished Bush's foreign relations."
>> > >
>> > > The Saudis are not always sound advisers on American foreign
>> policy.
>> > > But they
>> > > understand that Rambo rhetoric like Clinton's only plays into the
>> > > hands of
>> > > Iranian hard-liners who want to plow ahead with efforts to attain
>> a
>> > > nuclear
>> > > weapons capability. They argue that Iran must have that
>> capability
>> > > in order to
>> > > deter the United States from doing what Clinton threatened to do.
>> > >
>> > > While Clinton has hammered Obama for supporting military strikes
>> in
>> > > Pakistan,
>> > > her comments on Iran are much more far-reaching. She seems not to
>> > > realize that
>> > > she undermined Iranian reformists and pragmatists. The Iranian
>> > > people have been
>> > > more favorable to America than any other in the Gulf region or
>> the
>> > > Middle East.
>> > >
>> > > A presidential candidate who lightly commits to obliterating Iran
>> -
>> > > and,
>> > > presumably, all the children, parents, and grandparents in Iran -
>> > > should not be
>> > > answering the White House phone at any time of day or night.
>> > >
>> > > ###
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > Peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
>> > > http://lists.chambana.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/peace-discuss
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
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