[Peace-discuss] Torture referendum

[C. G. Estabrook]

How about

	"Given Representative Timothy Johnson's support for a bill outlawing torture, 
which was vetoed by President Bush, shall the citizens of Champaign Township 
urge all their Congressional representatives to renew their efforts to pass such 
a bill?"


John W. wrote:
> At 11:00 AM 3/31/2008, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
> 
>> John, your estimate of your fellow-citizens' intelligence is as always 
>> unnecessarily low.
> 
> All I can tell you, Carl - trying to remain civil here - is that I 
> myself had to read the fucking thing about 5 times to understand what it 
> said.  The bill would have PROHIBITED the CIA from using torture - a 
> negative.  Bush vetoed the bill - a double negative.  Johnson apparently 
> voted to override Bush's veto - either a triple negative, or a 
> double-double negative, depending on how you look at it.  I had to read 
> it about 5 times, and break it down into its component parts just as I 
> have here, to determine whether Johnson was for or against torture, and 
> I'm still not 100% positive.  I think he wants to prohibit the CIA from 
> employing torture, but I'm not sure.
> 
> The reason why I asked if Johnson supported the actual anti-torture bill 
> in the first place is (a) because of my confusion in reading your draft 
> referendum, and (b) if so, why not just say THAT?  Something like, 
> "Given Representative Timothy Johnson's support for a bill outlawing 
> torture, which was vetoed by pResident Bush...." ?
> 
> But you do what you like.  You're a professor.  You know everything 
> about everything.  Why, I'll bet there are a couple of studies that 
> prove empirically in a statistically significant manner that my fellow 
> citizens are more intelligent, more informed, more patient in reading 
> obscure, pedantic referenda than I think they are!
> 
> 
> 
>> Two corrections: the draft sentence should of course end with a 
>> question mark, and the meeting is not this Tuesday but next.  --CGE
>>
>>
>>
>> John W. wrote:
>>
>>> At 06:16 PM 3/30/2008, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here's a draft of a referendum to be proposed at the Champaign 
>>>> Township annual meeting Tuesday night:
>>>>
>>>> "Noting that Representative Timothy Johnson voted to override 
>>>> President Bush's veto of a bill that would have prohibited the CIA 
>>>> from using torture, shall the citizens of Champaign Township urge 
>>>> our congressional representatives to renew their efforts to pass 
>>>> such a bill."
>>>
>>> How many Peace-discuss readers think that this sentence is way too 
>>> complex and convoluted for the average reader?
>>> Did (and does) Tim Johnson support the actual anti-torture bill?
> 
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