[Peace-discuss] Mike Gravel on Palin

[Neil Parthun]

I thought we didn't have to deal with ad hominem and straw men  
arguments.  Seriously. The only difference here with straw men and  
actual debate is that the straw men aren't able to hit back.

I'm getting fed up with people putting other peoples' opinions into a  
neat little box to meet their own personal biases.

The anti-war movement should not fall into the politics of a  
politician -- especially one who whose major difference in a  
preference in killing Afghani and Pakistanis rather than Iraqis.   
Criticism of both candidates is not only right but vital.  We should  
promote actual choice of candidates instead of "NOT MCCAIN!" When I  
go shopping for cereal, must I buy "Cheerios" or "NOT CHEERIOS"?

If you want to vote for a pro-war Democrat, be my guest.  But don't  
try to tell me that I (or others) support McCain just because we  
won't swallow the Obama Kool-Aid because it is some low rent baiting  
tactics and I honestly expected better.

Its not the act of seeing with our own eyes alone; its correctly  
comprehending what we see,

      Neil

  We absolutely have to refuse to attribute any kind of permanency to  
that which is simply because it is.
[angela v. davis, 1944-]

Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could.  
Some blunders and absurdities have crept in; forget them as soon as  
you can. Tomorrow is a new day. You shall begin it serenely and with  
too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense.
[ralph waldo emerson, 1803-1882]

On Sep 3, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Brussel Morton K. wrote:

I care not what Larry Bartels, an élitest academic [http:// 
www.princeton.edu/~bartels/biography.html], says. You needn't quote  
someone else for what are your own opinions, all the more ironic in  
this case in that you too seem to be one of the élites excoriated.  
Perhaps you—I'm not sure about Bartels— would be happy with a  
theocratic state, a Catholic or fundamentalist one one no doubt, that  
would forbid a woman's right to choose and get rid of public  
education among other things. McCain might be happy with that as  
well. I'm getting fed up with your polemical emails, which seem to do  
nothing but attempt to convince readers to make it possible for a  
McCain presidency.

--mkb


On Sep 3, 2008, at 2:09 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:

> Biden is a perfectly conventional tool of militarist and corporate  
> interests, responsible for murderous policies at home and abroad,  
> from the Middle East war to the new bankruptcy law. Insofar as she  
> departs from those policies, I (like Gravel) would prefer Palin.
>
> As Larry Bartels points out, "it is affluent, college-educated  
> people ... who are most exercised by guns and religion. In  
> contemporary American politics, social issues are the opiate of the  
> elites." --CGE
>
>
> Brussel Morton K. wrote:
>> Gravel sounds deluded. His thesis is that ignorance is bliss.  
>> Sarah Palin's
>> incorruptibility, with recent revelations, seems not so clear  
>> after all. He
>> should have waited a bit before writing….
>> The implication of all the rants on this listserve against Obama- 
>> Biden is
>> that  it's better to have a McCain-Palin executive than one of  
>> Obama-Biden.
>> Or, really, it doesn't matter.
>> Incidentally, do you believe Palin to be less belligerent and  
>> corporate than
>> Biden, as Gravel suggests? I guess we'll just have to wait and  
>> see. Or maybe
>> you favor her antiabortion, creationist, NRA, energy, environmental,…
>> positions, which Gravel sloughs off as an afterthought. ?   --mkb
>> On Sep 3, 2008, at 11:21 AM, Matt Reichel wrote:
>>> Interesting piece by former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel on  
>>> McCain's running
>>> mate, Mrs Sarah Palin.
>>> Echoing the words of Alex Cockburn previously posted on this  
>>> list, far from
>>> being "cooky", he says: "Foreign policy experience? Thank god she  
>>> has none
>>> beyond that of a normal citizen subject to the militarization of our
>>> culture over the past 50 years, particularly so in Alaska with  
>>> its strong
>>> military presence. The three other would-be leaders have tons of  
>>> experience
>>> among them. But whether liberal or conservative all three are  
>>> committed to
>>> a policy of American imperialism with the self-appointed role of  
>>> world
>>> policeman. This role of trying to influence the world with our  
>>> military
>>> might sustains bloated defense budgets that profit the few and  
>>> impoverish
>>> the social and economic needs of the many."
>>> "Sarah Palin's Clean Slate: Thank God, She Has No Foreign Policy  
>>> Experience!"
>>> http://counterpunch.org/gravel09032008.html
>

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