[Peace-discuss] Christians, war and torture

[Morton K. Brussel]

Pertinent reply, Ricky, although my guess is that the results could  
well be true for non-whites as well.  What struck me is that people  
who profess religion claim they have special moral (god-given)  
authority and insight. This is just another example where it turns out  
to be illusory.
--Mort

On Aug 2, 2009, at 10:56 AM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:

> Interesting poll results, Mort.  Thanks for posting it.   
> Disturbing.  But I have to say I'd read the results somewhat  
> differently than this guy does - he may be bringing some baggage to  
> the analysis, like frustrated with his coreligionists in  
> particular.  I don't know.
>
> But the first thing I noticed was that the poll victims were all  
> white.  It could just be that it's more a phenomenon of white  
> culture, and that religion just isn't a factor.  Of course, since  
> the poll doesn't include people who ain't (white, that is), it could  
> be just Americans.  It does seem that 'we' are in a minority.   
> Witness the support for police tasers locally, for example, despite  
> the fact that it is a torture device (pain compliance).
>
> This has been going on for some time in our culture.  I noticed it  
> first (ok, I was naive before) several years ago when there was an  
> actual national debate among intellectuals and other folks about the  
> novel (at the time) practice of police inserting needles under the  
> fingernails of e.g. nonviolent protesters, pepper-spray, and other  
> pain-compliance methods used when mass arrests were being thwarted  
> by means of the protesters handcuffing themselves together, etc.
>
> We who reject such brutality have along uphill climb.  In my  
> opinion, our weakness is the level of organization of the other  
> side.  Consequently there is, in general, only one effective  
> response: organize our side (not just our friends).
>
> My 2c again.
> Ricky
>
> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> From: Brussel Morton K. <mkbrussel at comcast.net>
> Subject: [Peace-discuss] Christians, war and torture
> To: "Peace-discuss Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 2:34 PM
>
> Opening lines by by Catholic Ray McGovern:
>
> 'Christians' Wink at Torture
> by Ray McGovern
> Anyone harboring doubts that the institutional Church is riding  
> shotgun for the system, even regarding heinous sin like torture,  
> should be chastened by the results of a recent survey by the Pew  
> Research Center.
>
> Who but the cowardly crew leading the "Christian" churches can be  
> held responsible for the fact that many of their flock believe  
> torture of suspected terrorists is "justified?"
>
> Those polled were white non-Hispanic Catholics, white Evangelicals,  
> and white mainline Protestants. A majority (54 percent) of those who  
> attend church regularly said torture could be "justified," while a  
> majority of those not attending church regularly responded that  
> torture was rarely or never justified.
>
> I am not a psychologist or sociologist. But I recall that one of the  
> first things Hitler did on assuming power was to ensure there was a  
> pastor in every Lutheran and Catholic parish in Germany. Why?  
> Because he calculated, correctly, that this would be a force for  
> stability for his regime. Thus began horrid chapter in the history  
> of those who profess to be followers of Jesus of Nazareth but forget  
> his repeated admonition, Do not be afraid.
>
> A mere seven decades after the utter failure of most church leaders  
> in Germany, their current American counterparts have again yielded  
> to fear, and have condoned evils like torture by their deafening  
> silence.…
>
>
>
> More follows; see  http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/08/01-4
>
>
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>
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