[Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

Sat Aug 15 21:39:13 CDT 2009

Very simply and to the point the people of the U.S. , for the most part,
are and have been inherently  all the things that Dobbs, Beck, Hannity,
Limbaugh et al stand for. They comprise a natural audience for these
commentators and those like them and, therefore, represent a significant
demand for their type of commentary, which can be denied and ignored at
one’s own peril.

To elaborate:

 If anything these commentators are catering to the inherent racism,
intolerance,  ethnic bigotry, religious prejudices, social Dawinian biases,
fearfulness, desires for conformity, love of violence, etc. that is part and
parcel of America and its people.  The people already have these traits and
have no need for corporations or the corporate establishment to instill,
encourage, or bring out such attitudes and values since they pre-existed the
rise of corporations in the US and of corporate America.  Hence, they are
not the creatures of corporate power, money or spin.  To be sure,
contemporary corporations make use of the existence of these attitudes and
values for their own purposes – often to maintain control over the workings
of the society so that it works in their interests – whenever possible.
However, the corporate establishment is not the source of these attitudes
and values.  Hence there exists a significantly large native group who hold
these and similar values, beliefs, and attitudes which make up a natural
audience for the Dobbs. Becks et al which create a demand for what Dobbs,
beck et al are giving them.  To deny this or to minimize it is to play
ostrich and stick one’s head in the ground.

From: unionyes [mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net] 
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:20 PM
To: Peace-discuss List; LAURIE SOLOMON
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

And your point Laurie in 50 words or less ?

David J.

P.S. I am NOT trying to be " flippant " or disrespectfull, becaue I truely
respect your opinion and knowldge ~!

----- Original Message ----- 

From: LAURIE SOLOMON <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>  

To: 'unionyes' <mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net>  

Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:12 PM

Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

I guess that may be where we disagree; I think that there is a tendency to
give too little credence to the fact that there is this demand and that it
comes from a significant and large segment of the U.S. public who may be
guided by corporate spin  bought by corporate money but which nonetheless
represent and embodies some very fundamental values and beliefs that are
actually deeply held by a large number of the American public and masses.
American racism, ethnic and religious prejudice, cultural biases against
intellectual as opposed to practical education, and fear and hatred of  new
immigrants and people from other countries, intolerance, bigotry, and demand
for conformity are somethings that preexisted the rise of corporations in
America or corporate America.  The corporate establishment with its power
and wealth has been able to use these characteristics of the American public
to their advantage very effectively in modern times; but it is not the
source, cause, or grounds for said attitudes, values, or love of violence
toward other living creatures and properties. As was once said by Stockley
Carmicheal, I believe, “Violence is as American as Apple Pie.”  I would add
that so is lawlessness, intolerance, prejudice, conformity, as well as
notions of racial, ethnic, and  religious supremacy, as American as apple
pie.  They all have roots that pre-date the rise of American corporations
and are part of our cultural and psychological heritage.

From: unionyes [mailto:unionyes at ameritech.net] 
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 3:05 PM
To: LAURIE SOLOMON
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

It's not so much that ; Lou Dobbs, Rush Limbaugh, etc., have a demand for
their shows from a large segment of the U.S. public, but instead is a
function of what the corporate advertisers, the rest of corporate america
and the wealthy right-wing foundations want and will pay for !

David J.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: LAURIE SOLOMON <mailto:LAURIE at ADVANCENET.NET>  

To: 'Neil <mailto:lennybrucefan at gmail.com>  Parthun' ;
peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net 

Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:36 AM

Subject: RE: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

Whether or not one is engaged in censorship in this case appears to depend
on one’s referent level being addressed.  Your point about Lou Dobbs, the
person, may have some merit vis-à-vis the difference between censorship and
access to the exulted platform of radio & TV; however if you move the level
of reference up to the radio/TV station level, then one might be seen as
engaging in the censorship of the station and its broadcast content.

While no one guarantees the right to have a nationally televised show, no
one guarantees anyone the right to prevent someone from having such a show
or, for that matter prevents someone from having such a show.  In the case
of radio/TV, the air waves allegedly belong to the public to license to
actors for use.   The radio/TV stations and networks are among those actors;
and within legally prescribed restrictions they are free to air whatever
content they see fit,  independent of what the public or any portion of the
public might desire although in this country that decision is driven by the
market (audience share and advertising money).  Obviously, if one wants to
alter the legal restrictions, one needs to go through the process of
changing the legal framework , statutes, and administrative rules pertaining
to the conditions of licensing.

If one moves up a level to the ownership and control over the air waves,
which belong legally to the public, then I am afraid that those who wish to
see Dobbs shut down are going to lose for now and in the near future since
they do not compose a majority of the public – or enough to force a change
in the licensing requirements for the stations and their personnel as to the
sorts of content that they can air and when.  Like the other right-wing talk
commentators, his station and he appear to have strong national following
that support and demand him be given air time and are willing to put their
money where their mouths are.  That cannot be said for the progressives, the
left, or even the moderate reformers.  If they comprised a significantly
large population and if each contributed $5 or $10 each per year for
purposes of buying advertising on the stations that carry Dobbs, they could
probably use that as leverage to get the stations to either reel him and
other in or take them off the air.  But it seems that the progressives, the
left, liberal and moderate reformers would rather hold on to their money  or
spend it elsewhere and exercise their lungs shouting and crying about him
and his content instead.

From: peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net
[mailto:peace-discuss-bounces at lists.chambana.net] On Behalf Of Neil Parthun
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:13 PM
To: C.G.Estabrook
Cc: peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net
Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: Lou Dobbs is dangerous

Banning speech and requesting that such speech does not have a hyper-exulted
platform to amplify it are two very different things.

Nobody is saying Lou Dobbs doesn't have a right to say whatever he wants.
He has that right.  However, no person is guaranteed the right to have a
nationally televised show to promote their views and perspectives on any
topic.

Solidarity,

  -N.

Neil Parthun

  IEA Region 9 Grassroots Political Activist

  Writer/Facilitator for Champaign-Urbana Public i

"Early in life I had learned that if you want something, you had better make
some noise." - Malcolm X

  _____  

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