[Peace-discuss] Fw: We're unstoppable

[John W.]

On Tue, Aug 18, 2009 at 7:33 PM, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> wrote:

 Ricky, you can google out a verification as easily as I can.  I dont think
> the allegations are untrue but I chuckle at the rhetoric on both sides.
>

Probably because you're not personally affected by the fight over health
care reform.  Have good health insurance yourself, no doubt.



> I am convinced that the US health care delivery system is disgracefully
> Awful,
> and I would compare those who manage it quite unfavourably with such
> nobilities as
> wolves, buzzards, and maggots.
>
> The technological level is good but there are numerous glaring deficiencies
> in
> what is being delivered.  There are huge problems with the way the delivery
> is done.   Americans are being held hostage by the medical-pharmaceutical
> legal-regulatory industrial complex, and most Americans are so deluded and
> unaware
> that they hardly notice how badly and disgracefully they are being ripped
> off.
>
> Americans are afraid to die, terrified in fact, and to one with a "sick"
> sense of humour, its
> simply hilarious to see them in action.
>

You're quite above the fray engaged in by the common herd, aren't you,
Wayne?



> I am constantly reminded of Tom Woods's classic statement about the Stupid
> Party (clearly the Dems)
> and the Evil Party (clearly the Republicans), and Bipartisanship being when
> they get together in cooperation and
> do something that is truly Stupid and Evil.  It is quite a circus seeing
> the two sides of this fiasco turning
> similar rhetoric and tactics on one another.  They really aint so much
> different and quite frankly I dont
> see either side working for anything that could remotely be identified as
> any sort of genuine reform.
> To use a worn out analogy, it's like rearranging the deck chairs on the
> Titanic.
>

Unfortunately I have to agree with you here.  I even saw the "Titanic deck
chairs" analogy employed in a Facebook comment today.



> I would favour a cooperative-based system with dramatically reduced
> regulations, dramatically increased
> consumer education and transparency, and a complete destruction of the
> predatory tort system, and massive increases
> in recruitment of personnel into the medical field.  Licensure could be
> continued, but the penalties for lack of licensure
> would be non-existent.   Medical care facilities could choose to have
> licensed or unlicensed practitioners, and it would
> be the responsibility of the consumer to choose between whether to trust in
> a licensed quack or an oft more
> competent unlicensed quack.  There are more ideas along this line.
>

Equally absurd, no doubt?



> Single-payer doesnt fix the real problems, it just increases the burden on
> the system.  I am suggesting a dramatic reduction in the medical care burden
> via a common-sense approach.
>

And that would be?  Surely NOT your suggestions above.

John Wason




> On 8/18/2009 5:46 PM, Ricky Baldwin wrote:
>
>   Is there a source on this, Wayne?  You see, the reason I want to know is
> to assess the credibility of this reported event and other allegations
> therein.  That's important, because anybody can make up anything.  For
> example, in this email you forward below the author - whoever that is -
> refers to the Obama Admin's health care proposals as "socialist"  (the
> baldest nonsense, no matter whether you think the plan is good or not).
> Such rantings in my opinion probably impugn the witness here substantially,
> but since I don't actually know what happened at this event I would like to
> keep an open mind.
>
> However, this is already pretty difficult given this characterization of
> support for the "socializing" health care as originating with MoveOn and
> "hired thugs".  As you may know Tim Johnson's meeting locally in the library
> was quite different.  Supporters of the much-touted "public option" and the
> much-maligned "single payer" idea were not "hired thugs" but local community
> members dedicated to health care and organized by excellent organizers -
> whether you agree with them or not.  Perhaps this did happen somewhere.  We
> can't tell from this anonymous report.
>
> You may be right that purists on both sides are wrong, and maybe if we had
> a beer at the White House or something we'd agree that there is good and bad
> in the plan.  The fact remains that in the richest, most powerful country on
> earth millions of people are without real health care options, most of them
> children and older Americans, some of them AWARE-istas from way back and
> dedicated individuals to the peace and social justice, others very good
> people who may be dedicated to helping their fellow human beings in other
> ways, or people who have worked hard their whole lives only to be robbed of
> their health care and so on at the end.
>
> Many will eventually die because of the simple neglect of their society,
> perhaps after last-minute attempts to save their lives at ERs across the
> nation - which the opponents of reform will ultimately pay for along with
> the rest of us - but not as high a price as those without health care.
>
> I claim this is what this debate is ultimately about: what do we value
> most, our creature comforts (SUVs, TVs - more sets than people in the
> average home, according to Nielsen
> http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/media_entertainment/more-than-half-the-homes-in-us-have-three-or-more-tvs/,
> etc.), narrow political or ideological advantage, or our fellow human
> beings.
>
> Some high-minded folks on this list will likely claim I'm being simplistic
> or disingenuous, but that's what it really comes down to, no matter whose
> name's on the bill, who supports it, what color their skin or electoral map
> fill, public or private, perfect or imperfect: what will do the most good
> for the most people?  How can we get the most we can and make it stick?
>
> I think that's probably single-payer, which it appears we won't get this
> time (but we shouldn't give up), which the Obama plan isn't of course.  But
> consider this analogy: you're suddenly homeless, but you have a job with an
> office.  You can sleep there, but you'd have to be out at 6am every weekday
> morning.  The building has toilets, and there's a gym where you can shower
> (group shower - at 6:30am usually occupied by jocks and ROTC recruits).
> You're unlikley to find better for six months or so, but by then hopefully
> you can marshall your resources and try again.  OK, the analogy isn't
> perfect, but it's authentic and the life lesson applies: you don't turn your
> nose up at options when you're desperate, you get what you can and keep
> trying.
>
> My 2c.
> Ricky
>
> "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes." - Maggie Kuhn
>
> --- On *Tue, 8/18/09, E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> <ewj at pigs.ag>* wrote:
>
>
> From: E. Wayne Johnson <ewj at pigs.ag> <ewj at pigs.ag>
> Subject: Re: [Peace-discuss] Fw: We're unstoppable
> To: "Jenifer Cartwright" <jencart13 at yahoo.com> <jencart13 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Peace-discuss" <peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net><peace-discuss at lists.chambana.net>
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 5:01 PM
>
> This is an actual item I received today.  I am convinced that the groups on
>
> both "sides" of the health care debate and debacle are in error.
>
> *
> Left-Wing THUGS Attack Americans Opposed to "ObamaCare*
> It's getting ugly out there. All across the country, left-wing extremists
> are disrupting congressional town-hall meetings
> with venomous attacks on anyone who voices their objections to Barack
> Obama's plans to socialize American health care.
>
> · At a town hall meeting with Rep. Kathy Castor in Tampa, Florida, as she
> was introduced,
> the reaction was overwhelmingly against her, with boos and chants of "You
> work for us."
> In the lobby, you could hear the counter of Planned Parenthood
> representatives shouting,
> "Healthcare Now." Shortly thereafter, violence erupted, where three big
> "goons" came out
> and started pushing and roughing up the people in line and in the hallway,
> at one point
> even using a chokehold on one of the people.  Police officers on the scene
> did nothing to
> prevent the violence being perpetrated on these citizens trying to exercise
> their free
> speech rights -- citizens who far outnumbered those who were allowed to
> stay.
>
> · At a town hall meeting with Rep. Russ Carnahan in St. Louis, Missouri,
> police arrested six people for assaulting constituents who
> were opposed to the health care takeover. As reported locally, "Kenneth
> Gladney, 38, a conservative activist from St. Louis, said he
> was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with
> 'Don't tread on me' printed on them. He spoke to the
> Post-Dispatch from the emergency room at St. John's Mercy Medical Center,
> where he said he was awaiting treatment for injuries
> to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face. Gladney, who is black, said
> one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur
> against him before the attack."
>
> Many Representatives have announced they won't be holding any town-hall
> meetings after seeing that their constituents are OPPOSED
> to the socialist "ObamaCare".  We've got a plan to fight back against these
> radical left-wingers. Barack Obama's "Organizing for America" group is
> sending out
> Alerts to get their people to come out to townhalls to shout us down with
> "powerful voices". MoveOn.org has hired skilled "grassroots
> organizers" -- meaning, people like the union thugs in those videos -- who
> are working at townhalls across the country to give the impression
> that there's ANY support for Obama's plans to socialize health care in
> America. They've built new online tools to track events
> across the country -- and to make sure MoveOn members turn out at each one.
> They're raising hundreds of thousands of dollars to push their far-left
> agenda, against the true grassroots uprising we're witnessing in
> America.
>
> WE'RE FIGHTING BACK -- but we need the help of patriotic Americans like YOU
> to succeed!
> Can you chip in a donation today to support our work?
>
> If the bullying tactics of the left-wing goons are successful at
> suppressing the only true grassroots voices our senators and representatives
> hear over the recess, we'll have a hard time stopping the socialist plans
> of Obama, Pelosi and Reid in September.
> That's why we're getting the word out about Town Hall meetings across the
> nation -- we've created a new ad for television and radio,
> we're sending millions of email to our members to fight back with a strong
> town hall turnout, we're offering personalized blast faxes to
> every single member of Congress, and we're activating an energized network
> of on-the-ground constituents who aren't afraid to speak
> out against ObamaCare and the bullying tactics of the Left.  This month
> could decide the future of health care in America-and we're already one week
> in. If you've been sitting on the sidelines, now's the time.
>
>
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