[Discuss] [Peace-discuss] Police policy on lethal force

[Melodye Rosales]

Well I must agree that John's partner is indeed, a Beautiful (outside)
(inside), extremely intelligent (with the appropriate letters behind her
name to validate), dedicated to stomping out low-literacy in Chicago area
Adults and works tirelessly to do so---and simply an all-around amazing
woman whom I am proud to claim as part of our Black Culture.

...and John's points are well taken.  My father, a White-Jew, was disowned
by his parents when he decided to roam within and fall in love with the
Black community and those in it.  My cousins (my father's siblings children)
share their sadness about our grandmother's attitude (our grandfather was
less vocal).  They call her a racist. (of course she has long ago passed
away, as has my father who was born in 1911).  And though my parents and
grandparents came from a different time, those attitudes run rampant
today----often hidden under the covers of "political correctness".


On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 3:19 PM, John W. <jbw292002 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Mikhail,
>
> I read your missive and Nancy Wadsworth's HuffPo article, and I don't know
> how to process it.
>
> Back in the day, Malcolm X advised White people to go back into their own
> communities and convince their White counterparts not to be racist.  I tried
> it.  Never in life have I ever succeeded in disabusing a racist White person
> of a single iota of his/her racism.  Racism is not logical; it's emotional,
> deeply ingrained, and systemic.
>
> When I dared to fall in love with a Black woman back in 1987 - a lovely,
> intelligent, educated, caring Black woman whom Melodye knows - my mother
> promptly told me that she had no interest in even making her acquaintance.
> For two years I tried in vain to convince my mother - a "Christian" woman
> who had Black friends, supposedly, and taught Black students who adored her
> - that her racial bias was irrational and counterproductive.  She invoked
> the Bible, she invoked her reputation in the community, she invoked
> everything she could think of to dissuade me.  When she began to threaten me
> with disinheritance if I persisted in my "folly", I marched out of her house
> and out of her life.  She lived for 20 more years, never relinquishing her
> choice of a dead ideology over the love of her only living child.  And yes,
> she did disinherit me.
>
> Having lived through that experience, I can say with certainty that racism
> is one of the most evil, virulent, pernicious, toxic poisons known to man.
> It has very real consequences in the real world.  And ultimately, people
> CHOOSE it.  I simply can't excuse it.  I'm happy to engage in dialogue with
> anyone, but I've never seen an instance where a racist White person was made
> less racist through anything that I said.
>
> Black people can have racial prejudices and stereotypes, too, of course.
> But I've found that there are significant and profound differences.  First
> of all, Black people have valid historical reasons for any racial prejudices
> that they might harbor.  And second, I have found them to be open-minded
> enough to give White people, who do NOT deserve it, the benefit of the
> doubt.  If a White person proves that he or she can be trusted, Black people
> will open their homes and hearts.  Not so with the White people I've known.
>
> Arrgh, words fail me.
>
> John Wason
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Mikhail Lyubansky <lyubanskym at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Dear Melodye,
>>
>> I am both sad and angry at the comments you describe and regret that you
>> elicited that kind of response.  I've never listened to this particular
>> show, but anyone who has followed the national discourse around race is all
>> too familiar with the "othering" and "condescension" that you describe.  It
>> is clear to those of us with some consciousness about the many structural
>> and interpersonal ways that nonwhites have historically been and continue to
>> be marginalized that white conservatives just don't "get it".  And indeed
>> they don't.
>>
>> But I'd like to suggest that many self-identified liberals and
>> progressives don't "get" white conservatives either.  There's a tendency on
>> the part of progressives to assume an attitude of moral superiority when
>> talking to or about white conservatives, as well as to assume that their
>> intentions/goals are to, if not explicitly oppress, at the very least to
>> maintain the system of oppression that currently exists.  No doubt this is
>> sometimes the case.  But the problem with stereotypes is not that they are
>> not true, but that they are incomplete.  There are many white conservatives
>> that can and do support the equity and justice goals that progressives tend
>> to rally around.  The difference is not over the goals or outcomes but the
>> strategies that are supposed to produce those outcomes.
>>
>> My point is, if we are to move toward the kind of community we want -- a
>> community characterized by racial equity and solidarity -- then we have to
>> also be willing to listen and understand the "other" in the ways that they
>> want to be understood.  As strange as it might seem, I think we have to find
>> ways to ally with the oppressive segments of our community so that we can
>> begin to understand each other's needs and come to the realization that they
>> are not in opposition with each other.
>>
>> I am not advocating for compromise -- of any sort.  I am not advocating
>> for patience.  This is urgent. There is no time for patience. And the needs
>> are too important to compromise.  I'm just suggesting that demonizing the
>> other side is not likely to get what we want.
>>
>> This HuffPo writer has some additional thoughts on this that I think are
>> worth considering:
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-wadsworth/down-with-demonology-the_b_318660.html
>>
>> The writer above is a white woman...and I am (if you don't already know) a
>> white man.  As such, I recognize that we speak from a privileged position.
>> But our positions (as white progressives whose writing focuses on racial
>> issues), also give us a perspective that may have some value.  I offer it
>> here in that spirit and look forward to hearing how it is perceived.
>>
>> Mikhail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Melodye Rosales <
>> melodye at nitrogendesign.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Amazing---if anyone caught Penny For Your Thoughts today---all the
>>> callers for the last week have spoken as if they know what happened and how
>>> bad the kids are because they lack parenting---some spoke of the black
>>> community as a whole in that regard. But when I call in today and said that,
>>> "... I find it interesting that when Black Folk speak of injustice we are
>>> said to be using the race card, but when the callers on your (Turpins) show
>>> criticize our community with misnomers and lack of information, they are
>>> justified----I think that the community needs Diversity Training."
>>>
>>> The guy who followed called me "Arrogant".  For those of us (most on this
>>> list) who understand what that word means when referring to a Black person,
>>> coming from a Conservative White person, it is coded language that needs no
>>> Decoder.  Turpin (who seems frustrated I have called daily to correct the
>>> mis-statements that he allows to fester) made sure when the caller didn't
>>> catch my name, to let him know---more over, let his audience know that I am
>>> someone to watch.
>>>
>>> My concern is that a large majority in the Conservative Community are
>>> purposely trying to allow mis-statements to take flight.  It is almost as if
>>> they want to sway those who may visit the matter with open eyes, to feel
>>> that if they align their concerns with ours, then they somehow aren't caring
>>> about the "Good White Community".  The tragedy is that while we are simply
>>> trying to push for open government and transparency, while trying to
>>> highlight a flawed local government and provide more equitable solutions to
>>> bring about a more balanced and inclusive community----these Conservatives
>>> are using their energies to push us back into the place they feel we
>>> belong------without a voice.  "After all", the Conservatives cry out, "why
>>> do them-folk need a voice?  We've always told them what to do, what not to
>>> do, where to go, when to come back and how to behave. 'Cause they know we
>>> ain't toleratin' no back talk, no complaints, no questions.  So ya see,
>>> that's why them-folk don't need no voice. It's them Arrogant Ns who are
>>> causing the trouble. They be confusing them-folk.  They be tellin' them-folk
>>> they done always had a voice and they just gotta begin using it. Yep, it's
>>> them Arrogant Ns who are gonna get them-folk in trouble, not us."
>>>
>>> What a sad 1950s moment this community is experiencing...
>>>
>>> -M
>>
>>
>
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